Undoubtedly, fat white women comprise a large portion of the "everyone is beautiful" movement, an unfortunate consequence of the modern processed diet with mothers increasingly absent from the home. But the popular notion that media should celebrate "different body types" assuredly comes from multiculturalism, as blacks and Latino women have naturally more pronounced physical features than their white counterparts. This popular insistence that "real women have curves" does for black and Latino women what the exportation of ghetto culture, such as rap, the dozens, and breakdancing, does for blacks as a whole. In sum, by pushing as an attractive aesthetic the fat black girl and big-assed Latino woman or the features common amongst these groups, media normalizes a minority culture at odds with the majority.
As a society, we keep having "plus-sized" models pushed down our throats because in doing so, black and Latino women can have their collective status raised. I've made a similar argument regarding black pathology, avering the notion that liberalism is a social means of protecting blacks from criticism. If we excuse or normalize single motherhood, welfare, and drug abuse, then blacks don't look so bad anymore. Of course, obese white women get to reap the benefits, but the initial goal of "fat acceptance" and "all bodies are beautiful" was to make non-white women desirable. A fact further substantiated by looking at feminist blogrolls. Not entirely relevant, but how else do you explain this?
Ironically though, the most prominent celebrities, pun intended, with black and Latino curviness look nothing like the typical black hoodrat or Latino chola. Here's a slideshow of women with the "curvy" aesthetic pushed in recent years. It includes Jennifer Lopez, Beyonce, Selma Hayek, Rihanna, and Eva Longoria. And of course, perhaps the most hated women in black America - Kim Kardashian. All these women may have "dat ass" and ample curves, but they all have flat stomachs and extremely well proportioned bodies with little fat outside their breasts, butts, and hips. Here's Kim Kardashian, who has apparently ushered in a new beauty standard (LSFW: bikini):
I'm sorry, but what's so different between her and the "unrealistic" beauty standard? I see an almost ideal hourglass shape. How about another "curvy" superstar who is somehow widening the previously excessively narrow beauty archetype:
Now take a look at the hotties who we're told should "love themselves", "be happy in their own skin", and "appreciate their curves." Tell me if you notice any difference. (NSFW and while eating)
Implicit to campaigns like Dove's Real Beauty and "Every Body is Beautiful" and opposition to an objective beauty standard is the idea that the individuals above are equal in attractiveness to Kardashian and Johansen. If we're all beautiful and no hierarchy of beauty exists, then the two groups are essentially equal in beauty. Now you tell me: do black and Latina celebrities like JLo and Beyonce, in addition to curvy white women like above, reflect the type of "real, big, beautiful black" woman shown? The media apparently thinks so, as these recent black and Latina celebrities have been championed as revolutionary in terms of portrayals of beauty.* True Life is a sporadic one-hour documentary series that has been running on MTV since the late 90s. If you want a up-close, firsthand look at this generation's decay, this is the show to watch.
** I don't have any particular animus against fat people; actually I feel some pity towards them. And I even understand why they go to great lengths to fool themselves into feeling good. My problem: don't get mad at society when we reject you as unattractive due to your corpulence.
69 comments:
"...who took rather unabashed pride in her adiposity....As we know, black men like dat ass."
LOL!! Classic.
Savages.
I don't know how you can say that obese Black and Hispanic women are being touted as the sexual equivalents of the models you initially show in the post.
There are many reasons the industry got away from the Twiggy-to-Kate-Moss ectomorph ideal that prevailed from the late '60s through the mid '90s: bulimia is a bitch and there' s only so much cocaine you can do ----- and then when crack came along and tainted the chic edge of freebasing, because they're one and the same, anorexia was over in the modeling industry, so consequently the American Beauty standard began to puff up and out nationwide.
Maybe I'm non-outlier racially when it comes to female preferences; I like, say, a 5'10" women who weighs between 150 and 170lbs.; I'm just over 6'3" and vary between 225-230lbs., so don't feel overwhelmed by a bit of female heft. In my late 20s, i went out for a year with woman who was 5'10" and who on occasion dipped below 100lbs., but usually weighed-in between 110 and 115lbs.; such a form cuts a sightly form and aesthetic in clothes and from a distance but sans the clothing approximates a Ethiopian refugee.
No amount of media spin will make dark black women stop looking like shaved apes. Crack-skinny or Precious-fat, almost all human males think they are repulsive. (I certainly do.)
I don't know how you can say that obese Black and Hispanic women are being touted as the sexual equivalents of the models you initially show in the post.
It's implicit to campaigns like these:
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/01/26/not-all-bodies-are-good-bodies/
http://www.google.com/search?q=dove+real+beauty&hl=en&prmd=imvnsl&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Ok0mT9PhC-Lq0QHX6-3gBw&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=1149&bih=473
And all the feminist/popular culture shite about "loving your curves", "real women have curves", etc. The idea is that everyone is beautiful - there is no one standard of beauty. The conclusion and the intended message then is that the women at the bottom are equally attractive to the women at the top.
And there's a big difference between "thick" and "obese". A women can be thick and still be very attractive if it's not that saggy type of fat and its mostly confined to the "right" places; but no obese woman can be attractive.
I don't know if this is something I should be complaining about, but one of the fat chick images is broken.
None of the images are broken for me. It might be an issue with your browser or a slow/interrupted internet connection.
Oh my ... Alek Wek is hideous.
Go rent the movie 'Precious' - then you won't be complaining about missing images.
i hate fat people. their external appearance is a direct representation of their lack of self discipline and self control.
Mestizo women aren't so much fat as just amorphous and squatted down. They're NOT narrow and tall and European-framed like Selma Hayek, who is clearly of continental Spanish extraction.
Obsidian likes the fat ass black chicks, he readily admits it.
Nik is a chubby chaser, too.
lol
Selma Hayek, who is clearly of continental Spanish extraction
She's an Arab
For women - less bone, less muscle, more hip fat - is a good rule, with the proviso that bone and muscle should never be less than a pre-teen girl. Hip fat tends to take a long time to bottom out.
Curvier is better, really, but women who say it is tend to neglect that smaller and lighter bone structure is better too and that curvy doesn't mean having a thick waist and no, uh, curves.
In the UK the media does not know what it is pushing.
Cheryl Cole is brave for doing something as is Dawn French who is roughly the same height but was 280 lbs now she is superslim at 224.
I don't know if this is something I should be complaining about, but one of the fat chick images is broken.
IHTG: you want to tell us something about what kind of women you like?
Mestizo women aren't so much fat as just amorphous and squatted down.
Ehh, it's all the same to me.
-------
Here's a YouTube video of two black guys singing about what they like (NSFW audio):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIcJ7nXJmhc
"Nik is a chubby chaser, too."
I'm going to tell my girl what you said and she'll be pissed, as she's about 5'8" and 135.
(Truth be told, I wouldn't mind at all if she carried another 15 lbs. LOL!)
Fat and curvy are not the same.
Curvy means that they aren't flat chested marathoner types. And yeah, 135 looks more feminine than 105 on an average height woman, but isn't even in the ballpark of obesity.
white owmen love black men
Kim Kardashian is thin. She is blessed with an hour glass figure.
In the interest of science I went out and viewed a couple of those websites that the kids call 'pr0n'. I notice that many of the models on those might be described as 'curvy' or 'voluptuous'. While many are indeed slender, very few are genuinely 'skinny'.
I suspect that it has long been the case that heterosexual men like women who are a tad voluptous. The waif thin look so common in the fashion industry is more a product of the aesthetic sensibilities of New York fashion fags instead of the interests of rutting young males.
Which is to say, there is an objective standard of beauty, and she has hips and boobs.
Obese women don't have hips and boobs, they just have blobs and blobs.
Alexalemo says,
"The waif thin look so common in the fashion industry is more a product of the aesthetic sensibilities of New York fashion fags instead of the interests of rutting young males."
No, and that's what's so hilarious about this stuff: all these MAXIM-trained 19 -28-year-old white males culled into buying all these brand beers, boozes, clothes and colognes, all with the vaguely addicting but ever-elusive promise that doing as much will get them some peroxide-tressed anorexic-in-training bitch (who's most likely a cocaine-addicted lesbian) but who they've been taught to believe is some pinnacle-beauty babe!
And the kicker is the whole charade was likely concocted and produced by some gay white-male-hating marketing mogul who guys at sites like this usually bust a nut bitching about!
"i hate fat people. their external appearance is a direct representation of their lack of self discipline and self control."
Spoken like a naturally thin person. Personally, I think not using capitalization is a direct representation of a slovenly mind and contempt for one's readers.
I have a lot of sympathy for fat women, because in many cases they got fat by following the dietary recommendations of everyone from Oprah to the US government. They keep eating low-fat foods; why can't they lose weight?
There's nothing sadder than seeing a 25-year-old woman who's just starting to develop bulges in the wrong places. A few years ago, she was slim and hot, and probably ate what she liked and didn't worry about her weight too much. (She probably showed the same disdain for her struggling sisters as the commenter above, too.) Suddenly her clothes started getting tight, and a bit of flab started showing up under her chin and on the backs of her arms. She started jogging or going to the gym, and switched from pizza and a Coke to Lean Cuisine and diet soda, but the pounds just kept creeping on. She starts obsessively avoiding all fat and most meat, just eating a little skinless chicken breast or fish once in a while along with her salads (with low-fat dressing, of course), and gets even more intense with the exercise. She's hungry all the time and possibly developing health problems, but the pounds just keep creeping on.
For the cherry on top of the sundae, she gets people telling her she's just lazy and must be sneaking bacon when no one's looking. But she knows she didn't start eating more or exercising less -- most likely the opposite is true.
She's just doing what everyone says is correct, except some wackos on low-carb and paleo web sites. Is it really her fault that the wackos are right and everyone else -- the government, the magazines, the TV shows, the food companies, most doctors and nutritionists -- is wrong?
Once she gains 50 pounds, fighting a losing battle the whole way, is it any surprise if she starts repeating mantras like "everyone is beautiful" and "men wouldn't really go for stick-figure girls if they weren't conditioned by the media"? What other choice does she have?
Women have horrible work-ethic when it comes to working out. Observe an average chick in the gym, all they do is very low intensity cardio. Women also think they can eat like men. Newsflash ladies, guys have more muscle=burning off fat is easier.
One you are a fan the paleo diet, how many women do you know of that follow it?
I have a lot of sympathy for fat women, because in many cases they got fat by following the dietary recommendations of everyone from Oprah to the US government. They keep eating low-fat foods; why can't they lose weight?
I actually think most young girls understand that carbs and processed foods is what makes people fat. Maybe they still think diet soda is OK and meat is bad, but the "carbs=fat" notion is commonly understood. [Don't have a specific example, but I can recall watching movies or shows where a ditzy character says something like, "OMG Becky - don't you know how many carbs that has!!?!?"]
In the interest of science I went out and viewed a couple of those websites that the kids call 'pr0n'. I notice that many of the models on those might be described as 'curvy' or 'voluptuous'. While many are indeed slender, very few are genuinely 'skinny'.
I suspect that it has long been the case that heterosexual men like women who are a tad voluptous.
I agree. Most men like curvy women, but the weight must be in the correct places.
No, and that's what's so hilarious about this stuff: all these MAXIM-trained 19 -28-year-old white males culled into buying all these brand beers, boozes, clothes and colognes, all with the vaguely addicting but ever-elusive promise that doing as much will get them some peroxide-tressed anorexic-in-training bitch (who's most likely a cocaine-addicted lesbian) but who they've been taught to believe is some pinnacle-beauty babe!
And the kicker is the whole charade was likely concocted and produced by some gay white-male-hating marketing mogul who guys at sites like this usually bust a nut bitching about!
I have no clue what you're trying to say, but I'll comment on Maxim girls. They are disgusting. Here's a Maxim type girl...eww:
http://cdn01.cdn.egotastic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/chloe-simms-tv-choice-awards-LB-480x435.jpg
One you are a fan the paleo diet, how many women do you know of that follow it?
I'd say none, but as I said above most young women do understand that carbs are bad. They don't know much else and believe other mainstream crap, but at least they know that.
I don't think that posting pictures of attractive white women and ugly black women constitutes any sort of argument.
Of course, obese white women get to reap the benefits, but the initial goal of "fat acceptance" and "all bodies are beautiful" was to make non-white women desirable.
That's a crock. Americans of both sexes and all races are overweight, and are thus susceptible to hearing that "bigger is better".
I don't think that posting pictures of attractive white women and ugly black women constitutes any sort of argument.
You completely missed the point. I could have posted pictures of Beyonce, Rihanna, and JLo instead of Kardashain and Johannsen.
Let me reiterate because you ignored it:
The media celebrates celebs like Beyonce, JLo, and Kim Kardashian as ushering in a new standard of beauty. They're held up as evidence that the depiction of ideal beauty has changed. Yet these women are merely just a little curvier, yet still have fat in all the right places and no fat in the wrong places, like their stomachs or arms. So while the media celebrates them as reflecting "real women", they don't do that at all, as evinced by what "real women" (especially black and Latino women) actually look like.
[Whites are overweight, but blacks do carry their weight differently, e.g. big asses. And much of feminism complaining about the beauty ideal is complaints about it being titled towards white physical features like a smaller butt and less accentuated hips.]
'I actually think most young girls understand that carbs and processed foods is what makes people fat. Maybe they still think diet soda is OK and meat is bad, but the "carbs=fat" notion is commonly understood. [Don't have a specific example, but I can recall watching movies or shows where a ditzy character says something like, "OMG Becky - don't you know how many carbs that has!!?!?"]'
They may be starting to catch on that carbs are bad in some undefined way, but they really don't get it. (If they did, they'd be eating nothing but protein, and I don't think if you go into your local high school cafeteria you'll see too many girls pounding down whey shakes and skinless chicken breasts.) I have grown-up friends to whom I've explained the (low-carb paleo) way I eat on multiple occasions, and yet if I say something about the benefits of grass-fed beef, they'll say, "Yeah, I heard that's really lean." Then I have to explain that no, it's good for you despite being lean.
The idea that diet/weight-loss == low-fat is so deeply ingrained in every aspect of the culture that even when people seem to get it, they default back to the conventional wisdom if you don't keep retraining them. It's just automatic: "Oh, you're eating in a special way for some reason? Well, good thing we're serving turkey burgers on low-fat whole grain bread!" And the "whole grains are good for you" belief is nearly as strong as the anti-fat belief. As long as they're eating lots of grain and using vegetable oils in place of good fats, the plumpage will continue, and they'll have no idea why.
Yeah, I don't get this new trend as being "so brave" either. If anything, an hourglass figure is something in the genes that is innate, it's pretty difficult for the average woman to acquire one even with the right diet/exercise regimen. Most girls with hourglass figures don't really do much of either, from what I've observed. The thin or more toned ideal is much more achievable for the average woman, if she demonstrates self control. And sure, thin and athletic female bodies aren't as attractive as hourglass figures, but they sure are more attractive than obese ones. Obesity is disgusting, especially in young people. I've noticed way more young women are obese than young men, although the ratio becomes more even as people age.
It's interesting that women can be thick and still considered attractive. Where as a moderately overweight guy would be lucky to get any female attention at all. This is what leads to women getting hideously fat. They just keep on adding pounds slowly and gradually. Why not? It doesn't seem to impede their loves lives until it they reach a limit but that limit is MUCH higher for them than guys. If you're a guy you need to be in the gym 5-6 days a week and on a diet of some sort as a pre-requisite for a sex life.
No amount of media spin will make dark black women stop looking like shaved apes. Crack-skinny or Precious-fat, almost all human males think they are repulsive. (I certainly do.
It might make for the most fascinating pyschology experiment in history if a control group could be assembled in which the black women were articulate and courteous. Then we'd know if it's actually the visual that's the turnoff. But of course it can't be done.
As usual the troll "Q," who grew up in Lake Forest and has never met a black person other than Michael Jordan, doesn't know what he's talking about. Black women have gotten conspicuously fatter since 1990 as their neighborhoods have gotten more dangerous and women have started gang-fighting like men. Increased weight is its own self-defense course.
Black women have gotten conspicuously fatter since 1990 as their neighborhoods have gotten more dangerous and women have started gang-fighting like men. Increased weight is its own self-defense course.
LOL.
Black women are bulking up in a conscious effort to increase their hand-to-hand combat effectiveness?
It's a little more likely that they're getting fat due to eating fried foods so much. Go to even a middle-class black area and all you see is wings/philly/fried fish joints, along with the major chains. You try eating Popeye's, KFC or Church's chicken 12 times a week and see what it does for your waistline.
There is nothing inherently unattractive about dark skin. It is healthier in a hot, sunny climate.
Aaron B,
As a woman who eats mostly paleo, I have to agree with you. Of all of the women I know, only one is convinced of the benefits of low carb eating. The rest are convinced that low fat dairy and 10-12 servings of whole grains will keep them slim, even though they are spending a LOT of energy maintaining their weight or trying to lose. Actually, that goes for both the men and women I know. Unless they've taken the time to do the research, they pretty much all buy into the propaganda put out by the USDA and the Dairy Council.
No, it’s a lot simpler than that One. It’s all about trying to protect the SMV of the average woman (who, increasingly, is overweight).
Sure, it’s understandable that women will ignore spergy WoW players or unemployed losers… but God forbid that a morbidly obese woman have a harder time getting a date than a skinny cheerleader.
I love how "real women" are this, "real women" are that. "Real women" aren't fat, "real women" don't look like models.
Well, all the women in my family look like models. Thin & pretty. But they're not "real women" I guess.
Who can recommend a good link that runs down the basics of a 'paleo' diet; specifically, one that distinguishes between the paleo diet and a lo-carb diet (which i'm familiar with)? I understand that certain cooking oils and vegetables are focused upon more in the paleo diet.
Thnx in advance for any links.
Selma Hayek, who is clearly of continental Spanish extraction.
I thought she was of Levantine (Lebanese, Syrian, something) extraction?
In the interest of science I went out and viewed a couple of those websites that the kids call 'pr0n'. I notice that many of the models on those might be described as 'curvy' or 'voluptuous'. While many are indeed slender, very few are genuinely 'skinny'.
Holding up porn as a proxy for attractiveness makes no sense. Seriously, think that one over.
There is nothing inherently unattractive about dark skin.
I actually disagree. There is something, though I can't articulate what exactly, unattractive about dark skin.
If you agree with Steve Sailer, it is fair maiden and tall, dark and handsome men. That seems to crop up across all cultures/races -- preference for dark men and fair women, relatively speaking.
FWIW, most Hollywood actresses eat mostly fish/chicken broiled, salads, veggies, and eschew starches. Particularly processed ones. They also work out a lot.
What is weird is that most women among Black/Hispanic ghettos are fat. Yet their male peers are often thin. Black guys in their early twenties are known for their cut physiques, Mexican guys are at least not fat. My guess is ghetto/barrio women do very little physical activity, while their men do a lot. You can't be fat even wolfing down lots of calories if you are working to physical exhaustion. There are famous Dorothea Lange photos of Dust-bowl housewives, stick thin, Because physical labor just to wash clothes was exhausting -- an all day affair that left women spent, before washing machines.
OT
I was watching a documentary about the colonization of the Americas on Netflix. Turns out modern corn was created by the natives. They manipulated it into its huge cornel form of today. I have a little bit more respect for the mestizos now. Better than the Africans that's for sure.
I only briefly mentioned it in the post so let me say it here:
I actually do sort of feel sorry for fat people. There's very little discourse on how sweet food can actually act like a drug and has the same sort of potency when one tries to quit.
In a way, I totally understand why fat people get fat. It's really fricking hard not to eat all that good stuff.
I don't think its sweet food, rather curtailed exercise/activity.
Black women were not fat like this before. It is the modern diet and lack of modern activity. Just daily life was exhausting for women, before electric conveniences.
Washing machines took an all day exhausting chore and made it into five minutes of work, no calories burned. Look at Black/Hispanic men vs. peer women. The latter are fat, the former generally not. Because they're always moving, and the others are not. Even eating horrible food, if you're on a roof tacking up shingles, you'll burn calories quick.
"Sure, it’s understandable that women will ignore spergy WoW players or unemployed losers… but God forbid that a morbidly obese woman have a harder time getting a date than a skinny cheerleader."
Ah, but the liberal mind says that the man is wrong for judging by appearance whereas the woman is judging via status (something alleged to not be superficial) so it's acceptable. While there is some truth to a man of good character being more likely to have a high social standing, this is not full proof. Nor is it full proof that a woman who selects a good man of a high social standing is selecting on the basis of his virtue (instead of his wealth).
Evaluating appearance in an open manner is a "no no" but status shaming is not, necessarily. Someone just decided that status automatically points to something deeper than beauty (man's great Muse) but this was decided because it suits the interests of the majority to varying degrees. Propping up disgustingly obese women is in the interest of average women because they know if men can be tricked into valuing THAT, then their value will go up. It's all vanity in one form or another disguised as righteousness and "open-mindedness."
So an irony can come from this formulation that devalues true beauty in which the woman is given credit for being materialistic while the man is scorned for having some preference for beauty, which has always been considered to be virtue. In other words, a healthy man's natural libido is vilified and ridiculed because it hurts the feelings of a sizable (no pun) majority of women. We don't think of standards as being virtues these days. Only intents. Without standards, evaluation based only on intent leads toward a guilt-ridden society that can't affirm anything. Because deep down, a society of happy feelings for EVERYONE and a society valuing true value are irreconcilable.
People think that just because beautiful people can be (and often are) jerks, that beauty alone in its own right is not something to be valued and affirmed and RANKED and taken seriously; beauty can only be acknowledged as something that is almost superfluous after the person's inside niceness has been established or something. This despite the fact that the vast majority of women spend MUCH more time honing their appearance than they do their personality or instincts.
All of our moralizing is about feelings and the "inside." People don't consider beauty in its own right and how it fits into the entire package. It's just "bonus points" or something lest the wretch of a man be some shallow simpleton not yet "Enlightened" to the true value of women-- their intellect and assertiveness! Or if they do value women for reasons that men have historically valued women, they feel guilty about it all while their lip service betrays their instincts.
Quite a coward's game to play. But the cowards are the ones reproducing these days.
Blacks in general have a horrible diet. Fried chicken, flaming hots and grape or orange drink are common meals in the hood. Those things are all fucking delicious by the way.
Mestizos are complicated. Basically the more Indian they are the more they act like blacks and more white ..... well u get it. This most likely has to do with the Spanish marrying the elite tribal leaders' daughters first. The offspring married others like them or another Spaniard.
Seems to me, damn near the whole world runs on a lie. They lie that blacks are as smart as White folks, that the guy with a big house payment and car payment is wealthy, and the lie of what is healthy and beautiful. Most of what the media pimps as ideal body image is a lie. Those folks with the “ideal” bodies/ beauty, get surgery, get air brushed, and are on gear, thyroid med’s, crank etc . But it’s an impressive feat they’ve pulled off. One industry sells the lie you can look like they do with diet, lame ass work outs, junk science and bogus products to help get “get the body you’ve always wanted and deserve” and another industry tells women they are perfect just the way they are. Another dumps on men for not wanting plus size versions of the “body body women want and deserve”. It’s mind boggling.
They see a body builder or fitness model and think they are strong and fit, who are usually neither, but will walk past athletes because they don’t mesh with the lies they’ve been sold. 45 minutes of gym time is not going to overcome a sedentary lifestyle. People who workout, don’t train very hard and pretty much waste their gym time. Screwing around all day on the smith machine doesn’t create the same demands on your body as squatting, kettlebell, MMA, the atlas stones and everything else banned at planet fitness. Most folks who diet still eat bad food, as in food low in nutritional value. My guess is most folks are fat because they have a damn near completely sedentary lifestyle; workout vs train and they eat crap. Combine the three mistakes and people blow up.
Lara: "There is nothing inherently unattractive about dark skin."
OneSTDV: "I actually disagree. There is something, though I can't articulate what exactly, unattractive about dark skin."
There's nothing empirical to agree or disagree with here; each quote is a subjective judgment.
I agree, Nikcrit. I'm sure there are tribes in Africa that place a premium on dark skin and it can look nice with the proper bone structure. You often see Ethiopian women who look more attractive than your typical black American and the Ethiopian skin is almost always much darker. That one bitchy, aging Victoria's Secret model (not sure where she's from but she's dark) also comes to mind as I'm not sure she'd look as interesting with light skin.
That being said, light skin is what's more commonly desired by far worldwide (in my experience) which is interesting and does beg the sort of question that One is prompting. Having traveled to places like Southeast Asia, I can tell you the people there had an obsession with skin color (to the point where they'd buy unsafe creams that would damage their skin). I was a cultural Marxist who had been taught that the whole age of people wanting light skin had been smashed by do-gooders of the 1960s who ended white oppression. And I believed it all lock stock and barrel so I wasn't looking for any validation of HBD worldviews. So having these Asians specifically compliment me for my skin or light features or witnessing them ascribe beauty among their own kind to relative whiteness came as a shock and actually repulsed my then "innocent" mind. I was prone to using words like "dehumanizing" to describe behavior that to them was a simple "as a matter of fact"ness that they were comfortable with acknowledging that was not meant to hurt anyone's feelings, necessarily.
There was a bit of a de facto caste system that was not so much BASED on skin color, but skin color did strongly correlate with it. The lighter skinned Thais and Vietnamese tend to be the ones on billboards and advertisements (though such types were not common on the streets) and the Thais and Vietnamese themselves would identify light skin (whether on Westerners or their own countrymen) as "beautiful" and thought darker skin was something not to be desired even though they seemed aware of Western anti-racism as I'm sure enough Western college-aged tourists have come by over the years to preach their morality to these simple people. The darker ones tended to be poorer and at the bottom of society so there could be a class element, obviously. But there was more going on than just that, in my opinion.
In Korea and Japan (to a lesser degree, perhaps), light skin was also highly valued. Beaches would be FULL of umbrellas, not people tanning. Most women on the beach almost assuredly had a sunhat with them. So the whole myth about Europeans imposing their standard (given that they do like to tan these days) seems highly dubious. Incidentally, I actually witnessed Koreans keeping their racism against other non-whites in check in order to not upset politically correct whites living there.
And all the feminist/popular culture shite about "loving your curves", "real women have curves", etc. The idea is that everyone is beautiful - there is no one standard of beauty. The conclusion and the intended message then is that the women at the bottom are equally attractive to the women at the top.
It's all of the same relativism designed to make those groups who consistently fall below what was a standard to feel better about themselves, and to vilify those groups who easily and naturally adhered to said standards. Saying there is no better or worse reduces all to the lowest common denominator. When there was a standard, in whatever the endeavor, and a particular group could never measure up to that standard, the standard either had to be lowered or done away with entirely. We went from rightly noting and defining substandard as substandard, to acceptance and tolerance of the substandard as 'different but just as good and legitimate' to actual glorification of the substandard, and finally to vilification of anyone who suggests that any behavior is substandard. The descent has been rapid.
Obese women don't have hips and boobs, they just have blobs and blobs.
LOL. Classic.
I think the social urge toward light skin is because the race with naturally light skin is the most materially valued and succesful of the three races, so there's a conscious-to-subconscious urge to relate and, on a larger level, you see that impulse develop in the form of class consciousness and class striving, with the 'whitening' just one of the many cultural manifestations (nose jobs, too; you'd often hear of bougie blacks back in the earlier part of the 20th century getting plastic surgery so they could more closely approximate the aquiline features of caucasians, which purportedly connnoted biological sophistication, etc.)
But the individual judgment on whether they like or dislike, find erotic or not, dark skin is a subjective judgement; there's no scientific heft to saying a certain skin tone is 'more attractive' than others; that's where I lose my patience with some of the pro-white rhetoric; when it crosses the line from piercing through social pieties and simply embraces the worst cultural conceits of minority nationalism; I mean there was that controversial 'study' a while back (kwanzaa?) who declared that black women were scientifically less beautiful than women of other races; a lot of pro-white men here ran with that finding ----- but it was intereesting that, in that very study, it was also ntoed that NAM men rated higher in attractiveness by the same metrics, yet we didn't hear that facet touted so much at sites like these.
That's why I believe all such studies are subordinate to the conceits of those inquiriing; I mean, how could such a measurement and/or determinination NOT be mainly qualitative and/or cultural?!!
@nikcrit
"it was also noted that NAM men rated higher in attractiveness by the same metrics, yet we didn't hear that facet touted so much at sites like these."
They were probably waiting for you to do it. Obsidian once served that role, but he's been MIA for a while now.
I don't notice dark skin being a problem for black men.
Fair maiden, tall, dark and handsome men, as Steve Sailer observed. Dark guys have no problems, it seems to enhance masculine attributes across the board. Dark women ... look masculine. Across all races/ethnic groups. Fair men ... look feminine. Across all races and ethnicities.
This is why Conan OBrien jokes about being pale, and there are no mega sex symbols who are not fair.
"Maybe they still think diet soda is OK and meat is bad,....."
I've been hearing that diet soda isn't just a empty calorie, but actually hinders weight loss? What's the deal on that?
And I'm still waiting for a link that properly overviews "Paleo Diets."
Anybody got a good link?
"But the individual judgment on whether they like or dislike, find erotic or not, dark skin is a subjective judgement;"
As far as we know, yes.
However, the way Western philosophical thinking has developed over the last two thousand years, attributing something as "subjective" is a way to sort of dismiss judgment (not that you were).
In other words, cultural relativists will say that because blacks like black skin and whites like white skin (or whatever!) that it's all a wash since it's not "objective." My response to that is that subjective preference is meaningful and significant and affirms culture, not multi-culturalism.
"there's no scientific heft to saying a certain skin tone is 'more attractive' than others; that's where I lose my patience with some of the pro-white rhetoric;"
Absolutely. I think fixating on "objectiveness" rather misses the point, too. People just assume that with subjectivity that standards can go out the window. But that has not been true historically. It's a modern phenomenon to think that individual value judgments are just incidentals. And that's because Christianity conditions everyone to see each other as equals when whites haven't historically seen blacks as equals and blacks haven't typically seen whites as equals and Asians haven't... and on and on... With Christian equality, these differing perspectives all amount to nothing in most people's minds.
"when it crosses the line from piercing through social pieties and simply embraces the worst cultural conceits of minority nationalism; I mean there was that controversial 'study' a while back (kwanzaa?) who declared that black women were scientifically less beautiful than women of other races; a lot of pro-white men here ran with that finding -----"
Yeah, I think it's trivial and irrelevant. But let's not forget that non-whites seize on studies too. Look at Jared Diamond. He stated rather plainly that Papua New Guineans (I think that's who he was referring to) were smarter than Europeans. How can he be taken seriously still after a remark like that? I'm sure there are many non-whites who get off to that sort of thing as well.
The most common form of "minority chauvinism" so to speak that I encounter is with respect to women. There is always some study (it ubiquitous on the communistic BBC) being reported on that implies how women are better than men in some particular area. Or it will imply that men are faster and more reckless and women are more careful whether and thus, "get it right" in terms of studying or driving or what have you. In other words, the females have all the virtue. It's such a norm, now. (Of course, I doubt the studies ever control for age and race which could make all the difference, too. Particularly when you consider that the U.K. disproportionately gets non-white male immigrants.)
"but it was intereesting that, in that very study, it was also ntoed that NAM men rated higher in attractiveness by the same metrics,"
Perhaps in some ways they may. Non-white men are more aggressive overall and this is seen as "confidence" by some women and I guess it sort of is even if it's often boorishness as well. I think in terms of the overall package that is simply not true, though given what I see with my own eyes. I say this as a someone not at all trying to come across as conceited in this respect.
I think white men are pound for pound the most desired for whatever reason. Black men, the ones who can get their act together, also seem to do fairly well. They project a "confidence" that some women seem to like and they often have muscular builds that are very masculine. It's most Middle Eastern men and East Asian men and Hispanic men that seen to have trouble outside of their race.
At any rate, multi-culturalism always seems to leave Asian men and black women with the short end of the stick. White men and black men and Asian women make out fine. The problem I have with it is that it has set into motion a trend that will gradually erase my race and culture from the planet. I certainly don't get off sticking it to other people the way some pro-whites seem to EXCEPT when they are asking for it by displaying their own forms of supremacy which they hypocritically reveal when accusing me of being a "white supremacist."
"yet we didn't hear that facet touted so much at sites like these."
I'd be interested to see that information. I think there are real reasons white women date black men and not Asian men and real reasons white men date Asian women and not black women. Again, I would say that it is based on SOME standard. Again, I would hesitate to call it "objective" because arguing about that is irrelevant and it's an ontological claim that is impossible to prove (though one can make a good case for objective standards) when it comes right down to it.
"That's why I believe all such studies are subordinate to the conceits of those inquiriing;"
Yes, it is true that conceits are inescapable to a degree. But I do think the results can point to things beyond those conceits (otherwise anthropology becomes frivolous). A lot of people dismiss old anthropologists like Lothrop Stoddard and Arthur de Gobineau on such grounds. Yet, their value judgments are still logical. They're just dismissed for not having a "universal" perspective of "objectivity" when such is impossible and again, not relevant to their points. It's not as if the men were falsifying anything and their basic arguments still hold up.
"I mean, how could such a measurement and/or determinination NOT be mainly qualitative and/or cultural?!!"
Well, again, there could be something deeper. But that's an ontological question that is irrelevant. At the end of the day different peoples tend to value different forms and that in itself is significant.
"Fair men ... look feminine. Across all races and ethnicities."
Lol. Then why do Ryan Gosling and Daniel Craig get so many roles?
"This is why Conan OBrien jokes about being pale, and there are no mega sex symbols who are not fair."
Very true, but it is not very applicable to real life. Women are attracted to status/confidence/swag way more than any other attribute. Damian Lewis is going to pull way more tail than some regular Joe who happens to be tall, dark and handsome.
"They were probably waiting for you to do it. Obsidian once served that role, but he's been MIA for a while now."
BURN!
I didn't know you had it in you, Lara!
"the popular notion that media should celebrate "different body types" assuredly comes from multiculturalism"
There is an element of multiculti-ness. It might be more accurate to attribute it to several things. This "everyone is beautiful" propaganda predates the modern "Diversity Nation". It was drilled into my head at an early age with "educational" videos, etc. in Elementary and Middle School. Most of the time these productions appeared to be targeted towards White female adolescents, and not minorities. The main message being that standards of beauty make girls feel bad - not that standards of beauty make Latinas and Black girls feel bad.
The same propaganda also dovetails nicely with post-sex revolution weirdness, enabled by modern technology. Judging by the pro obesity "feeder/feedee" subcultures on the internet, a nontrivial minority of men do like obese women. Donna Simpson (Britain's fattest woman) has a paysite where people watch her eat, or something. This is deeper than pro-Black & Latino feel-good propaganda. It's cultural fragmentation, technological change, online anonymity, and the modern-day terror of being "judgmental" about sexual preferences. Admittedly, much of this is pushed by the diversity mongers we know & love.
I watched a video about dark skinned black women on Jezebel. There was one very cute dark skinned black girl who heard her mother bragging about how cute she was and then her mother added, "could you imagine how beautiful she'd be with a little lightness to her skin?" This was supposed to be devastating to her. I'd be beautiful, too, if a few of my features could be changed. Same goes for many women. It's self indulgent to dwell on these things. No one cares.
I've been hearing that diet soda isn't just a empty calorie, but actually hinders weight loss? What's the deal on that?
I gather that sweet flavors, not just sugar, trigger a carbohydrate hunger that troubles a lot of people. What's worse is that they don't know they're troubled, they just believe that it's natural to want to eat crackers all day, and healthy to do so. So while they successfully take the carbs out of their beverage intake, they can't quite succeed, or even come close, at cutting carbs out of their food intake. They give them selves an A for effort at food intake, and a regular A for beverages, and keep gaining weight or being fat.
So anyway, that is the subtle danger of artificial sweeteners as I understand it. I don't know if the same applies to gum as well as soda.
I'm sorry, but what's so different between her and the "unrealistic" beauty standard? I see an almost ideal hourglass shape.
Yep, you're right.
I don't comment much, but this is just plain wrong. Seriously, I'm not arguing about men of color liking bigger women, but why didn't you show a picture of Bria Myles or Melyssa Ford or Toccara? Especially Toccara, Bria Myles, and other models in that vein. Bria Myles in particular has big breasts, a small waist, and apparently keeps all of the rest of her body fat in her butt and thighs. That would've made your point much better. The second one in particular is passed around as a joke. You got it off a website that puts up ridiculous pictures for the amusement of others. Google King magazine models (NSFW). You would've gotten better and more accurate source material.
RE: "They were probably waiting for you to do it. Obsidian once served that role, but he's been MIA for a while now." ----- Mason
Mason Arrow: "BURN!
I didn't know you had it in you, Lara!"
I didn't take Lara's remark as an insult. Did I miss something?
Because, if you noticed, unlike some commenters here, I pretty much dismissed the study whether its conceits were favorable to me or not.
But for some I guess "Any port in a storm will do." (lol!)
http://horoscope.kapook.com/view31824.html
Here is an example of what I mean about Thais using white skin in their ads. Most Thais do not look like that.
UPAF:
"Here is an example of what I mean about Thais ....."
yes, I understand that lighter-complexion connotes higher-caste among most races and ethnicities. reasons supposedly vary from duskier hues relating more often to outdoor and other peasantry work to purely aesthetic reasons favoring alabaster skin.
It's not hard to make logical conjecture out of any of those elements; i suspect it's the result of a lot of things, though none of these theories make absolute sense if taken to their extreme.
I mean, granted, it makes sense tha t the hue of the race who's achieved the most in our era/epoch/millenium would have some aesthetical influence trickling down for many-upon-many reasons; still, I think a sort-of hybrid effect determines skin-color ideals as well; take, for instance, some Scandinavian-looking babe like Bjork. She's sort-of pale and very nordic, which if going by Euro-preeminence in terms of intelligence and and physical aesthetic, should be at some sort of apex as a icon (scandinavians, imo, are arguably the most aesthically 'handsome' of caucasians). yet, i would hardly hold-up her, Bjork, even just her complexion, as some sort of ideal, white or racially overall. I mean, wouldn't a much duskier, say, Sophia Loren, or some other mix of northern and southern European looks work better as a beauty standard?
I just think stuff like beauty ideals are ultimately some ineffable mix of cumulative combo of aesthetical beauty, cultural pride, sentimental association, captured reveries that occurred in the past, etc., ad infinitum, until they go beyond any easy verbal description and are simply etched in sensual memory.
From there, certain crackpots try to forge such esoteria into quanitative theories and pseudo-science.
It's ultimately sentimental conceit, which doesn't really need any pretense of science.
correctiona: should be "ineffable mix OR cumulative combo ....."
" i would hardly hold-up her, Bjork, even just her complexion, as some sort of ideal, white or racially overall."
Then take up your pitchfork and go after Kanazawa with the rest of 'em. So much for the olympian indifference about who's hot or not!
" non-whites seize on studies too. Look at Jared Diamond. He stated rather plainly that Papua New Guineans (I think that's who he was referring to) were smarter than Europeans."
Exactly. These types "don't care about studies" up to the point where they're fixing to send death threats to a man like Kanazawa. And when men like him develop findings they like, they gloat.
However, I disagree that his results are "trivial and irrelevant" (if that's what you were trying to say). As soon as they were exposed to "Baywatch", etc Polynesian girls started to suffer terribly from eating disorders & poor body image. Even though they had little firsthand contact with White females. Images alone of a slender, pale-skinned body type do seem to have a universal appeal. An appeal that's sometimes manifested as soon as a nonwhite culture becomes aware of "whiteness". Protestations notwithstanding.
Bjork doesn't look Nordic. She had an Asiatic look. I'm not familiar with her background or arctic aboriginal people but maybe she's got some Lapp or Siberian in het ancestry.
Post a Comment