Surprisingly though, the movie reflected a Roissy-esque understanding of female sexual attraction. Kutcher's character, Adam, is largely a beta SWPL who gets dumped by his hot girlfriend. She later starts going out with his alpha-celebrity father, leaving him distraught over her betrayal. In trying to get over his ex, Adam begins having emotionless sex with Natalie Portman's character, Emma. Emma is certain to define the relationship as merely for sex and Adam obliges her. About halfway through the movie, he goes off the beta deep-end, getting clingy, showing her affection (makes her a mix CD), and ultimately causing their "break-up" by professing his love for Emma. After six weeks of not speaking, Emma contacts Adam again, who brusquely conveys his lack of interest. He has a fling with another girl, witnessed by Emma. After Adam continues his aloof behavior, Emma can't help but love him back. Classic Roissy doctrine here - women hate clingy betas and they love aloof, womanizing alphas.
While Hollywood's propaganda machine often presents a specious narrative, it does largely get women right. From high school queen bees to aging women with ticking biological clocks, many Hollywood movies display an understanding of what women want and how different classes of men react to that. Take another Hollywood movie written by men - The 40 Year-Old Virgin. The main character is a classic, nice-guy herb who "puts the pussy on a pedestal." He gets involved with an aging 40-something woman who describes herself as such on their first date (paraphrased):
I need to start dating nice guys like you. I've dated all kinds of assholes before. But you're different...I have three children, but their father isn't around.In a post from 2010, Roissy/Heartiste dissects the wide array of Game techniques evident in a pickup scene from Vicky Christina Barcelona. Another post from Roissy/Heartiste describes the utterly obvious Game-relevant themes of the 2009 film 500 Days of Summer. On YouTube, Asian filmmakers KevJumba and Ryan Higa put out an ode to nice guys in which they describe the "nice-guy/douchebag" dichotomy.
Notice a pattern in who creates the content? Well, for a different take on women, Candace Bushnell wrote the Sex and the City books and Elizabeth Gilbert wrote Eat, Pray, Love. While we still have "butt-kicking babes" shows like Buffy and the upcoming Haywire, many pop culture offerings do illustrate the reality of female sexual attraction. And in general, the people creating this realistic content are betas and omegas like Woody Allen and the Apatow crew.
It's interesting to realize this - that the men who suffer from failure with women often display the best understanding of female idiosyncrasies. I suppose this happens because those that fail, especially those of an intellectual bent, are spurred to understand their failure. The desire to rationalize rejection from women becomes even stronger when these rejections occur as a result of doing exactly what women say they want - "a nice guy who will treat me right." So Hollywood attracts a certain sort of aggrieved beta male whose history of unrequited affection manifests in cutting tales of female frivolity and shallowness. Perhaps these men create the content above as a means of working through their anger/sadness, getting laughs from something that once caused them pain.
47 comments:
A lot of the content creators are homosexual men - who also have a profound understanding of what makes women tick.
Is a high-pitched shriek of "Whoooooo!!!!" this generation's battlecry?
Depends on what context you are referring. If a Celtic reel then no. It's an expression of enjoyment.
What context did you mean?
For instance, the "Cooee" is a high pitched kind of shriek used by Aboriginals to gather their tribe.
Yet it was used by the like of Old Bull, of which was then said:
"The chief of this tribe, and the only old man belonging to it, was of much superior stature to the others – full six feet two inches in height, and weighing fifteen stone. Although apparently approaching threescore years, and somewhat too far gone to flesh, the strength of “the Old Bull” – for that was his name – must still have been prodigious. His proportions were remarkably fine; the development of the pectoral muscles and the depth of chest were greater than I had ever seen in individuals of the many naked nations through which I have travelled. A spear laid across the top of his breast as he stood up, remained there as on a shelf."
no strings attached was written by a woman.
lol no this is wrong. overall hollywood paints a picture wherein its the women who are the aggressors and initiators, instead of the passive "allowers" that they really are
Too nice = too ugly. If a girl is attracted to you nice works. If not it doesn't.
"A lot of the content creators are homosexual men - who also have a profound understanding of what makes women tick."
and don't understand what makes men tick.
and
"lol no this is wrong. overall hollywood paints a picture wherein its the women who are the aggressors and initiators, instead of the passive "allowers" that they really are"
almost always it's a woman throwing/shoving/pushing the man on the bed, with effortless ease.
Are you a beta, 1 ? I guess I just don't understand the preoccupation here. There are millions of women out there of suitable age and race, what's the problem ? We used to say "women are like buses--there's another one along every ten minutes".
The only problem I see here, is the idea that there is a "special one"--which isn't male thinking, it's female thinking.
no strings attached was written by a woman.
OK, well some women understand. But for the most part, it's beta men.
overall hollywood paints a picture wherein its the women who are the aggressors and initiators, instead of the passive "allowers" that they really are
Examples? I'd say when it's beta men (or older women) writing the scripts, it's largely true to life. Women are portrayed as frivolous and petty and attracted to aloof alphas. When it's women writing the scripts (Sex and the City), which happens less often, you get female fantasies.
Too nice = too ugly. If a girl is attracted to you nice works. If not it doesn't.
That's not entirely wrong, but there's a threshold. You can't be a total beta chump no matter what.
Is a high-pitched shriek of "Whoooooo!!!!" this generation's battlecry? Depends on what context you are referring.
Go to a club or bar and within 5 minutes you'll hear a group of girls yell out "Woooo" in unison. It's also common with live studio audiences of young people.
If you've heard this shriek before, you should definitely know what I'm talking about.
I guess I just don't understand the preoccupation here. There are millions of women out there of suitable age and race, what's the problem ? We used to say "women are like buses--there's another one along every ten minutes".
I write these Game and women posts largely because I find gender relations quite interesting. It's much more practical than academic.
And I'm not trying to whine either (I don't know why so many people presume this). That's the just the way it is - men should understand this instead of complaining about it. Maybe they won't become motorcycle riding badasses, but there are plenty of nice girls who can be won over with teasing and the man avoiding supplication.
"Two and a Half Men" and "40-Year Old Virgin" both veered away from sexual realism and toward older-woman wish-fulfillment in one specific way.
The tv show regularly disparages young/hot female characters as stupid and dull, in favor of "mature, accomplished women." This was particularly bad in Charlie Sheen's later seasons.
The movie also threw a stupid young hotter at Steve Carrel's virgin character, whom he rejects in favor of the carousel-retiree single mother.
Funny thing about the whole "I always seem to date jerks" thing... when I was high-school age and came across this attitude (in pop culture more so than in real life), my conceptual framework was so different then than it is now.
Back then, I felt sympathy for jerk-dating girls under the rationale that the girl wanted a nice guy, and the asshole fooled her into thinking he's a nice guy, and the girl got burned, like a victim of fraud.
I lost my virginity early in my teens, at a get-together where I was being aloof and cocky to a girl (who was good looking) whom I harbored mild contempt for because she had a crass streak. We were alone in a room, and she said "promise me you won't tell anyone if I do something rash" and then she started kissing me.
That same school year, I had a crush on a pretty, angelic girl, whom I was wooing with supplication game, getting nowhere.
Did not even make a connection or recognize a pattern. The "girls want a nice guy" thing was deeply imprinted in my immature brain.
It's really hard to make the transition from jerks to nice guys. I don't think most women can ever really do it.
" Maybe they won't become motorcycle riding badasses, but there are plenty of nice girls who can be won over with teasing and the man avoiding supplication."
At one time I inadvertently hired just such a person. Former president of The Hell's Outcasts, later rolled into The Angels. I even road out to Sturgis with them one year. The thing is, is that their women are not desirable--to me, anyway. Frequently, they are strippers and often turned into whores. There is absolutely no pretense at loyalty on the part of the males. The lower you are on the totem poll, the more access the rest of the gang has to "your woman". The leader is the only one with absolute so sovereignty .
All in all, an interesting experience.
Detail about Hollywood upcoming movies check Hollywood movie calendar monthly list latest Hollywood movies getting ready to release
Hollywood Upcoming Movies
Former president of The Hell's Outcasts, later rolled into The Angels. I even road [sic] out to Sturgis with them one year.
Not only are you more elite than the Rockefellers and sauver than James Bond, you're also badass enough to ride with motorcycle outlaws. Please may I touch the hem of your garment? Truly you are not of this earth. (But you still need to work on not mixing up homonyms.)
Lara, I don't see many women make the transition from jerks to nice guys as they get older. Maybe everyone has a certain "type" they like and that type never changes or maybe some women just never learn. I have to be honest and say I don't have much sympathy for the women who date jerks. I do have a little sympathy for the children who grow up without a father around because their mother had kids with a jerk who deserted her.
If you've heard this shriek before, you should definitely know what I'm talking about.
Yes I understand. Perhaps it is like the cooee, a tribal call of coming together for the girls.
How I cook meat, fish, fowl, and eggs: heat pan, add butter/oil, put on uncooked food, add salt/pepper, flip around for 8-10 minutes, serve.
Sauteeing works great for some cuts, but others really require braising or stewing. I'm doing a leg of lamb tonight that'll take a good 6 hours on low heat. It'll be tender and falling off the bone. Some things you can't rush.
Given Woody Allen's women, beta doesn't seem the right term.
"But you still need to work on not mixing up homonyms.)"
You're just jealous, oh ye of so little value. How would anyone ever expect to do anything worth while in life if you're too afraid to leave your mommy's basement? Ever been to Sturgis? It's not like you need a ticket to get there. Someone being grateful for a job is just that, nothing more to it. Him having a job meant not having to go back to jail. I guess anyone might be grateful for that.
I won't kid myself and think he's totally crime free, but I do think he largely became so do to my influence--simple math, how much did you make from crime, how much while in prison? He works for a local municipality these days and I believe is largely straight--as much as anyone like him can be.
I still find it amusing that they wouldn't let me go into the back country at night with them, though. They decided that I looked to straight--like a cop or something. Hair wasn't shaggy enough, didn't have tats, that sort of thing.
"I even road [sic] out to Sturgis with them one year."
Apparently you don't own an iPhone. They finish spelling for you. I believe you have pounced on such silliness in the past. What is that old saying about the hobgoblins of simple minds? Oh yeah:
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds
What is is little about you,anon?
You're just jealous, oh ye of so little value.
You're right, I am. I can only dream of riding with the Angels, keeping a stable of HB10s, and being able to snub the Rockefellers at socials. Teach me how to be you, Bobby. Unlike everyone else, I BELIEVE YOU!
Apparently you don't own an iPhone. They finish spelling for you.
That's a pretty good excuse, Bobby. If I were you, I'd keep using it.
"Lara, I don't see many women make the transition from jerks to nice guys as they get older. Maybe everyone has a certain "type" they like and that type never changes "
Studies have long shown that women who like abusive men have a need to be abused. Low self esteem is one reason, usually a poor or non-existent father/daughter relationship is the other.
There is another old saying/warning to young men about women--"if you want to know what woman will end up like, look at the mother". This can all seen as "watch the mother". Children learn from their parents and a woman who likes abusive men, generally had a mother who did as well. It's what they know.
"
That's a pretty good excuse, Bobby. If I were you, I'd keep using it."
Well, some day when you can afford one, you can learn for yourself. In the meantime, you can live vicariously:
http://damnyouautocorrect.com/
Come to think of it, that's all guys like you do, right? Live vicariously through others? Interestingly enough, my word verification for this post is "floging".
RobertB said,"The only problem I see here, is the idea that there is a "special one"--which isn't male thinking, it's female thinking."
That's right!
It's a frickin' movie, for God's sake. Why do you insist on trying to find valuable insights into life in movies?
incidentally, "rode" and "road" are not a homonym. They are homophones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homonym
Don't you ever get tired of my kicking your sorry ass around? Or, does being a beta male mean that you are also a masochist?
Come to think of it, that's all guys like you do, right? Live vicariously through others?
That's why I need you to mentor me, Bob. Maybe one day, Lord willing, I can inhabit a rich fantasy life of my own instead of leeching off your fantasies.
Funny, my word verif is "bsdetector".
Now, just so that the anonymous beta doesn't misunderstand, I am gone for the night as it is now time to watch a nice movie with my family--"The Sound Of Music".
See, we are just so much "whiter" than you are, that we fairly glow.
incidentally, "rode" and "road" are not a homonym. They are homophones.
They are both, Bob. But I'm glad you've learned how to use wikipedia.
"Funny, my word verif is "bsdetector"."
Holy shit, you are so stupid as to not know the difference between a homonym and a homophone, and you call me a BS'er? Every time you criticize me, you are proven wrong--so, either you are a SF moron, retarded or black.
They all amount to the same thing anyway.
Oh, Bobby. Don't be such a pedant. It's accepted usage. What was that you said about hobgoblins and little minds?
Now let's let bygones be bygones. I am in dire need of that hem of your garment.
... betas and omegas like Woody Allen ...
Uhm ... what part of "fucked a string of actresses, dumping the last one in order to bang her younger hotter tighter adopted daugter" strikes you as Beta and/or Omega?
"Given Woody Allen's women, beta doesn't seem the right term."
Woody only pretends to be a beta. He was captain of his high-school basketball team and apparently a fairly popular kid.
LOL, word verification: woodi.
First, he wants, but she doesn't want. Then, she wants, but he doesn't want. Finally, they both want but can't.
Woody only pretends to be a beta. He was captain of his high-school basketball team ...
No, I haven't 'Wiki-ed' it, but the above quote makes me feel pretty certain that Woody didn't attend a integrated high-school, as he looks more like a captain of the chess or debate team.
Dale said...
Given Woody Allen's women, beta doesn't seem the right term.
I would think a certain measure of cash and fame added to the mix would blow the verities between 'Betas'-vs.-'Alphas' clear out of the water.
I mean, i'd bet Danny Devito could have a '10' wife or g.friend ------ if he wants one.
I mean, i'd bet Danny Devito could have a '10' wife or g.friend ------ if he wants one.
Verne Troyer, a.k.a. Mini-Me from the Austin Powers movies, had this as his girlfriend (LSFW):
http://www.holytaco.com/dominique-arganese-is-mini-mes-new-girlfriend/
It's a frickin' movie, for God's sake. Why do you insist on trying to find valuable insights into life in movies?
Umm..because essentially every single cultural offering is based on real-world experiences. Did I really just have to explain that!?
Tebow magic is gone. Will be one and done in the playoffs.
Quick off-topic@ OneSTDV:
yes, gone for now, resumed into the holy ether ....... but whose rejuvenating spirit is now incarnated by.... Matt Flynn!
"A lot of the content creators are homosexual men - who also have a profound understanding of what makes women tick."
I'm not sure this is right. Growing up, they hang around girls/women a lot because they aren't judged the way they'd be judged trying to hang around straight guys, but because gay men still have the male sex drive, I don't think they understand women and sex any more than straight men do.
I'm not sure this is right. Growing up, they hang around girls/women a lot because they aren't judged the way they'd be judged trying to hang around straight guys, but because gay men still have the male sex drive, I don't think they understand women and sex any more than straight men do.
Disagreed. Homosexual men don't find women attractive so they can just have friendships with women and understand them better than other groups. Basically everything homosexual do with women is platonic by default and so they treat women like sisters since there won't be any deeper meaning attached to it and as this goes on they understand women better since they are not blinded by attraction.
If this is the case, it's changed over the years. My context for movies tends to be the 80s, when a common plot was: nice guy has crush on hot girl who is dating jerk; nice guy eventually does something spectacular -- wins the big game, skis the K-12, beats up the jerk to defend her (probably the *worst* thing you can do in real life), learns to dance, etc. -- and girl sees the jerk's true colors and falls for nice guy. Fortunately, in at least some of the movies, the nice guy simultaneously realizes that the hot girl was kind of superficial, and he falls for Secretly Even Hotter girl-next-door and snubs the queen, so it could have been worse. But still, I think what a lot of nice guys in my generation took away from those movies was: keep being nice, look for a way to impress her, and be available for when that Special Moment arises. Exactly the wrong lesson.
A perfect example: many women of my generation will sigh with fondness if you mention Say Anything, and say something like, "I wish a man would do something that romantic for me." (That's the one where Cusack stands on his car and holds the boom-box over his head in the rain.) A guy hears that and thinks, "Ah ha! The way to my beloved's heart is to make some big, embarrassing, spectacular, public profession of my love. That'll bring her around!" Then he does so and is surprised when the woman avoids him completely, or he receives a restraining order. What the guy didn't understand is that she meant, "I wish the guy I'm in love with would do that for me." In the movie, it worked because the girl was already in love with Cusack and had broken it off for some plot-related reason. Had he been just some nerd in her class with a crush on her, she would have been creeped out. But guys focus on the actions they can see instead of the emotions, as if relationships obey the laws of physics: he did this, then she did that. Problem solved.
Gay men probably do have an objective viewpoint about male/female relationships that straight men don't have. It's easier to be objective about something that's not critical to you. Also, if they're openly gay, a certain kind of woman will want to be "gal pals" with them, and they'll get to see a lot of the cattiness and less noble behavior that women don't normally show around men. But I'm not sure that means they understand women in general better. They often have love-hate feelings about their own mothers (who were frequently domineering). Projecting those onto female characters may explain why we get so many "angelic harridans" on TV today: women who are presented as beautiful and smart and wonderful -- especially compared to their sloppy, doltish men -- but who tend to be pushy broads who (if they're single) are terrible at relationships.
Incidentally, betas and omegas who allow hot women to turn them into "my best guy friend," hanging out with them and letting them cry on your shoulder about their jerk boyfriends in hopes that they'll wake up, also get to see this behavior. Maybe that explains what One is talking about here: a natural beta sees this stuff when he's younger, and then he gets rich and famous making movies and hot women suddenly start treating him differently. A little success with women goes a long way in bringing the beta out of his shell, and he starts to notice that being a bit of a jerk himself (something he was afraid to do back when he was always the pursuer) just revs them up. Maybe he starts to Get It, and includes a little of that in his shows.
@Aaron Baugher,
Good comment; about the most insightful I've seen to date among the set that gives credence to all this 'Game' stuff ------ which, I readily concede, I often can't help but process is utter nonsense.
My revision to the creed: It's all about wealth and acclaim; if not, it's about the man sating some genetic or cultural-driven need that he has no way whatsoever of knowing he was capable of fulfilling.
The time I spent in L.A. was testament to my belief; plenty of 5'3" nebbishes cruising around in Porsche Carrera's with porcelain Stepford Wives 3.0 (whom you 'Game' boys deem 'Alpha Queens').
or something like that. (LOL!)
While there is an occasional honest or partially honest Hollywood movie about sexual dynamics (Blue Valentine, Last American Virgin), most of what's produced is pure beta-boy wish-fulfillment fantasy. Either the writers are clueless themselves or they're cynically pandering to the clueless. Hollywood has never been very good at telling hard truths about anything.
Nikcrit, a lot of utter nonsense gets uttered and called "Game," but that doesn't mean there aren't real patterns to what attracts women to men that men can study and try to emulate. (Or perhaps more important, patterns to what turns women off that men can avoid doing.) You just have to sort through a lot of bluster to find the people who are talking sense.
One interesting thing about One's synopsis of the movie is the first part. The later part is classic male/female psychology, as he says, but look at how the movie starts: a "largely beta SWPL" has a hot girlfriend, and when she dumps him, he starts hooking up with another hot girl for casual sex. Betas just don't get lucky that often in real life, even temporarily. But it's the movies, and it's Ashton Kutcher, so I guess it wouldn't be believable to today's audiences if he didn't get laid regularly.
That's something I've noticed: TV and movie characters have a *lot* more sex today than they used to. Thomas Magnum, one of the prime sex symbols of the 80s, had sex with at most six women in eight seasons of Magnum p.i., and he was married to one of them. Contrast that with The Big Bang Theory, about four nerds whose whole schtick is that they're hopeless with women -- one can't even speak when a woman is in the room, and another puts on an obviously desperate Lothario act. Yet three of these four guys have sex in the very first season, generally with pretty attractive women. It just seems like everyone on the screen who wants to have sex does so pretty often, and with fairly attractive people. It leaves one wondering just how "omega" a TV character would have to be to go without for a few years, the way a "nice guy" easily can in real life.
Post a Comment