Saturday Audience Participation
The "Man"-osphere includes men who have decided to travel abroad as a means of escaping quarterlife crisis. For example, some guy writing for the site SingleDudeTravel often posts at In Mala Fide and the patron saint of this genre, Roosh V, still relays his anecdotes from a youth hostel in whatever third-world shithole he's sleeping in this week. The basic justification for this vagabond lifestyle follows:
-Dude, I just watched Fight Club.Oh yea, add the eXiled to that list as perhaps they best illustrate this juvenile abdication of adulthood and responsibility. In essence, all of these "man travel" bloggers lash out at society indiscriminately, bashing all women, everything about Amerika, and everyone who seeks value in middle-class responsibility and family. According to travel bloggers, these "boring" individuals are drones imposed upon by our horrible society, while a foreign land full of underage hookers, loads of drugs, and other uppity expats apparently has something better to offer. Basically, these people believe finding love and raising a family is less spiritually uplifting than whatever else is out there. I present the dichotomy as such because it's really the truth of it - these "male travelers" seek anything but here, without consideration that "here" can offer something worthwhile if one looks properly.
-Fuck this.
-American girls are fat.
-I'm moving to South America to bang drunk, underage whores, drink all day, and frame my immature laziness as enlightened self-discovery.
Independent of the above characterization, I don't like travel in general. And if I did travel, it would be to the natural wonders of the United States, particularly anything mountain-y. I love the serenity of the mountains and that sort of clean, unadulterated air. America has plenty to offer in regards to travel, but of course one can't then impress the SWPL class with tales of a superficially edifying experience. If I had to go to another country, I sure wouldn't pick the South American destinations, land of huge asses and gangs of street thieves (or worse), popular amongst the "male travel" class. Japan, Greece, Italy, and the Netherlands/Belgium/Holland would probably be at the top of my list.
Today's questions: What do you think of these "male travel" blogs and bloggers? What do you think of their abject pessimism regarding America and American women? Are they chasing something just as superficial as what they criticize? They all seem to abhor family life, thoughts? Have you traveled? If yes, to where and what did you get from it?
[Note: I do sincerely admire their courage though.]
170 comments:
While I thing Roosh is a smart guy who's done a lot of good for men, especially young men looking to let their genitalia lead the path through life for them, he's also had a toxic effect by creating a lot of imitators, some of whom regrettably blog as poor imitations of the original.
I love travel, and I even like Latin America - sort of; definitely a place to sojourn, not live. And I find the women, LBFMs for short, to be acceptable, though not really my thing (let it be said that my contempt for the modern American woman is boundless).
But the Roosh effect can be frightening. I have a friend who hit 40 and totally freaked out. He's a very smart guy but somewhat aimless, and he became enthralled by Roosh and the others. Rather than get seriously laid in a decent country - easily possible as he's a handsome guy - he chucked his job, career actually, and went off to South America where it's allegedly "real." Having now spent 6 weeks there he's going to move there permanently. He claims everything is the opposite of home and therefore magnificent. He's never traveled abroad before, and a big crash with reality is inbound, which I am dreading for him.
Thanks, Roosh ...
went off to South America where it's allegedly "real."
Exactly. It's so "real."
Come now One, tell us how you really feel.
What do you think of these "male travel" blogs and bloggers?
The better ones --- Roosh, Freedom Twenty-Five, Expat Chronicles --- are miles away more interesting then their detractors, the mental onanists bleating about how to save Western "civilization." They actually go out and DO things, as opposed to finger-wagging other people from the safety of their office cubicles or theorizing on how to bring something back from the dead.
What do you think of their abject pessimism regarding America and American women?
Over the top at times, but a needed response to the willful naivete of "Christian" "conservatives" (in quotes because if Jesus were alive today, he'd be busy burning churches) who maliciously try to shame men into "manning up" and marrying some fat sow to save Christianity/the white race/insert cause of the month here.
Are they chasing something just as superficial as what they criticize?
Hmmm, let's see - explore the world on your own terms, meet new people, learn new things, or spend forty hours a week hunched over a desk entering numbers to pay for a McMansion, a fat wife and three screaming kids who hate you? Real hard decision there.
They all seem to abhor family life, thoughts?
They "abhor" it because its costs and risks far outweigh its rewards. Without an incentive to marry and have children, men will head for the exits.
Have you traveled?
Not yet, but planning to. I'm socking away money and building a small business that can sustain me on the road.
Oh yea, add the eXiled to that list as perhaps they best illustrate this juvenile abdication of adulthood and responsibility.
My, a little jealous are you One?
"Adulthood" and "responsibility" aren't one-way streets. If there's no reward for following the straight and narrow, surprise...people will ESCHEW those paths! These kinds of crass shaming attempts require you to have power over the person you're shaming.
Nobody cares what you "conservative," "Christian" failures think. You have no power to enforce your will on anyone. Your demands for men to "man up" (amazing how you have nothing to say about women) and follow you on the road to nowhere are nothing but the bleats of slaves, chained of their own accord, resentful of those who have broken free. You are mediocrities, forever despising those who are smarter, more driven, more capable then you will ever be.
Enjoy living with yourselves.
BTW, if your first responses to my comment are "nihilist" or "degenerate," you've already lost the argument. Try and come at me with insults that actually have meaning to someone who DOESN'T believe in a magical space man who blew the universe out his ass.
And if you start babbling about "genetic dead ends," I advise you to actually READ that goddamn book you've based your entire worldview around.
I have to laugh at all those in the manosphere who think they're getting a great bargain with foreign women, especially third-world women, whose attitudes on marriage are often purely mercenary. The stereotypes of docile, adoring Asian and Latin American women are mostly fiction. I bet the men who married Lorena Gallo and Catherine Kieu are very sorry they ever fell for that scam.
I think Roissy's theory of the Four Sirens of the Apocalypse is at least in spirit correct, and a decent society is simply impossible when there's a high degree of independence for women and lack of legal and social pressure for monogamy. As far as I can tell there's absolutely nothing an individual can do about this, and the powers that be aim to make it worse.
Personally I anticipate that the middle class paradise that we had for a few decades is a historical anomaly. And sooner, rather than later, there won't be any need to go to Brazil, since all societies will turn into brutal have/have-nots with nothing but barbed wire in between.
Sure you can still make a try for adulthood and responsibility, but the payoffs are worse and the process much harder. Eg, it's much harder to find a decent woman, the incentives for staying married are terrible, your savings can easily be used to bomb a bunch of ragheads or given to irresponsible bankers, and so on.
Looking at it economically, the choice of consuming experiences now vs investing in the future, has gotten a LOT more attratictive compared to earlier decades.
So either you can grit your teeth and act as if it is the 50:s, and it might be the best choice for some, or you can follow one of the various strategies to maximally exploit our current situation. Enjoying the decline, to borrow from Captain Capitalism.
If you're religious I guess the situation looks pretty different, but most of these guys aren't.
Ferd, you're a nihilist degenerate. :p
I left the U.S. over 20 years ago, and have not looked back. Anywhere can be your heaven if you are willing to be open-minded and work for it a bit. That said, some places are definitely easier than others, and the same thing can be said for women in general.
Anyone who hasn't traveled shouldn't knock it, or those who are happy doing it. And when I say traveled, I mean extended travel where you live and learn the local area as opposed to the tourist thing. Maybe it will be your piece of cake and maybe not, but even if you do decide to settle back in your home country, you will likely be a changed and better person with a clearer understanding of what you want in life.
amigo: "While I thing Roosh is a smart guy who's done a lot of good for men..."
He's subhuman scum. I hope he ends up face down in a ditch in some third world shithole.
Ferdinand: "They actually go out and DO things."
They are not doing anything valuable, interesting or impressive.
If I had to go to another country, I sure wouldn't pick the South American destinations, land of huge asses and gangs of street thieves (or worse), popular amongst the "male travel" class. Japan, Greek, Italy, and the Netherlands/Belgium/Holland would probably be at the top of my list.
"Had to ...."? I would think you were the kind of person who'd look forward to traveling and seeing more of the world; you really should; it would add a lot to your perspective. I did my first real, extended overseas traveling in the period between working at a newspaper and working in the public schools.
One of the areas visited was on your tentative wishlist; a three-week stint that included Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Der Hague, Brussels and Paris.
Very intriguing, as I'd only been to Paris previous to that trip. But one thing about Belgium and the Netherlands: it would confirm everything you ever read about how Europe is that much furher along in P.C. orthodoxy than (even) back in here in the good ol' U.S.of A.
nik, were you the black American guy who wrote a blog comment somewhere a few years ago about being approached in the Netherlands by a white Dutch hipster who assumed a black man would be happy to join him in trashing America but got all pissy when the black man refused to play along with the anti-American Eurosnobbery?
...and Ferdinand fires the first salvo in the Second Great Traditionalist/Manosphere Civil War (the first involved Auster and his crew).
And it's been a long time coming. Blogrolls shall be pruned! Comments shall be trolled!
I, too, admire the way that those guys go out and do things instead of just talking about them. It takes courage to travel internationally, courage that I did not have as a single man.
But the anti-marriage attitude makes no sense at all. Can't those guys just look around and see that for a lot of guys, marriage is a very good thing? Lots of guys are happy with their wives, love their children, and enjoy being husbands and fathers. Some of those guys probably even had parents who loved each other and created a happy childhood home for them.
And obviously not all women -- certainly not most women -- are materialistic harpies who want to enslave some hapless beta into paying for granite countertops and a Mercedes SUV while secretly banging alphas on the side or whatever. Lots of women -- probably the vast majority of women -- view marriage in idealistic terms and want to create a home and family. Even lots of city girls who are going along with the times and working in offices have that idealistic view of marriage. The average married woman is a nice girl, maybe a little flaky, who aspires to be a good person and a good mom, not some entitled princess who will divorce you if a better offer comes along (which it doesn't.)
I can understand how a divorced guy can be pessimistic toward marriage, although I don't see how those guys can allow themselves to lose all perspective and become so hysterically embittered.
But lots of the PUA bloggers are single, and why would they be so negative toward it? Examples of guys who are content with marriage and family are everywhere. They are in the restaurant at the table next to you having dinner with their wives. They are down at the park on Saturdays playing ball with their kids. Most of the dudes taking their kids to Disney World are happy to be there, they aren't secretly wishing they were at a strip club or in Thailand. How can the PUA writers be blind to that?
I'm guessing life is easier, in some ways, in poorer countries. If you don't feel like getting up and going to work 5 days a week, or coming home to the same woman every night, I think this lifestyle would be appealing.
My favorite expat personality has always been Gunslingergregi, in terms feeling like I'm dealing with a real human being who wants to live a life in its full dimensions, which the ugliest side of America had denied him.
I don't have any animus to the guys you mention and their writing is valuable, but I find something repellent about sex tourism.
But I can relate to the 20-something guys who stop out. At that particular age, I had a massive quarterlife crisis. My response was to drift around the South for a few months, mainly in the TN/NC part if the Appalachians. Then I went into the Army for the expressed purpose of serving overseas.
Never underestimate the inchoate force driving an intelligent and sensitive young man who enters life with a sudden sense that he has been lied to. Dropping out and writing well about it is one of the better ways of responding to the rage.
I do like this post BTW.
I think FerBard is confusing me with OneSTDV, for some reason. I don't think One has ever identified himself is a conservative Christian, has he? Also, the phrases "degenerate nihilist" and "genetic dead end" are my words applied to FerBard, not One's.
In the old days, the various degenerates were content to piss away their own meaningless lives in obscurity. Now, they seem to want company, having become evangelists for their degenerate cause.
I would not say they have courage to travel like that. What's courageous about it? More likely they were running away from something, or just hardcore loners with no family ties.
One, I think you meant to use the term "adventurous". We can admire their adventurousness, surely, but their courageousness? I think not.
My persistent image of a sex tourist is that I'd feel strong urge to wash my hand after shaking his.
I don't really see what is so courageous about traveling to a foreign country, either.
I have every reason to not weigh in on this, but I will anyway...
Though Ferdinand doesn't enjoy the dig at them, eXiled is a pretty good example of the underlying sentiment you're point to. I've even seen our man PA here (whom I love in a strictly platonic blogger-commenter way) accept the argument that America is somehow like Soviet Russia. Meanwhile at least a couple of reporters have been killed during the recent protests over that country's rigged elections. So though I complain about this country's government, the overall picture in America is nothing like that in Russia, though guys like the eXiled proprietors would have us think so.
I appreciate the guys like Roosh and Frost who travel the world and live a relatively adventurous lifestyle. The funny thing is that it seems to be the guys who haven't yet left the States who are most critical of the women and the future path of American culture. Of course, I criticize those things too sometimes, but I'm always a little off-put by someone making a big fuss over their current city, state, or country. When I hear someone complain about where they are, my first thought is always "it's not the city; it's you."
To me, it seems like the guys who are heavily critical of the states are talking themselves into their position. It's a rationalization hamster of a different variety. If you keep telling yourself that American chicks are fat then that provides the ammo you need to continue to hate on the country - as defined by its women apparently.
So while I appreciate what expats are doing I don't appreciate some of the implicit elitism in it all. I don't think some of the bigger names engage in this behavior, mind you. But a theme underlying the entire discussion is that the guys who've stayed behind in the U.S. are either square or ignorant sheep. I say, live and let live.
I don't read the travel blogs much, but I love ADV rider. Men are born to seek adventure and challenge, yet in today's America a young man is priced out of the market for adventure, fun, and family. We have had several decades of asset inflation while wage inflation has been stagnant. I have two Uncles, both in their eighties, who owned airplanes as young men. One Uncle was an engineer, while the other was an auto mechanic. The fifties were a golden age for young men in Amierica when wages were high while housing costs were still reasonable. The Corvette is a car for rich old guys today, but this was not always the case. A young man today buys a motorcycle instead (good choice--more fun than a Vette), but the big issue is affordable family formation as Steve Sailer put it. A young man today, even with a college degree, cannot afford a house in a decent place to live. It is also hard to attract the small percentage of attractive girls when you live in your parent's basement. Calls for young men to man up, be responsible, get married, etc. will continue to fall on deaf ears as long as we ignore the reasons that this choice is so difficult today. In Mexico you can lie on a beach, see wonderful sunsets, and still get a clean motel room for twenty bucks. As the USA degenerates into a banana republic overseas travel may become less attractive. Right now our money just goes a lot further elsewhere. Destroying private sector unions, globalization, and credit expansion have combined to lower wage scales while raising the cost of living. We need to reverse these policies and find policies that enhance affordable family formation.
Generally agree with Ferd on this, and One should really go out and do some real traveling and broaden his horizons. I'm not sure how you justify beating up on people who have the wherewithal to live overseas, but I've done it and you quickly realize that the U.S. is not the be all and end all of human existence.
One is too young to be mired in one dimensional provincialism. On some level his stated disdain for both travel or even foreign cultures here in the States casts a pall over his otherwise excellent writing.
Get out and see the world that you live in, One... you'll be much better off in the long run.
Face your fears.
A lot of dudes want to wander. It's a dude thing, largely. You see it everywhere from British imperialist travel memoirs to Lord of the Rings.
As for marriage...it never offered men as much as it offered women, and now it offers less. For me, at least, given that I'm a poor judge of character with no access to a religious community, the risk of a Roissy-like divorce-rape scam is too high. For others, that may not be the case. I have a friend who's a Mormon with four kids, and I think he's made a fine decision.
Courage?
What's so courageous about any of this? All of us hiding behind nom de plumes and aliases.
Most of these malcontents are running from their responsibilities as men, that's all that they're doing. There's nothing admirable with many of them.
Running off to foreign lands does have a certain appeal, but to those of us that do have careers and families and responsibilities. Well, honestly, I admire the men that face their miserable lives head-on and don't run from it. It takes real courage to be responsible and not be a libertine or self styled, grandiose, holier than thou, know-it-all keyboard commando.
South America? No thanks.
We've got enough short, squat, big butt, dusky Mestizo chicks migrating here to the US already... and it's not helping the gene pool in the looks category.
Maybe rural Brazil, where they have those isolated villages where they keep finding "exotic" models (all of which are of virtually 100% Germanic ancestry genetically)
Dissident:
"Well, honestly, I admire the men that face their miserable lives head-on and don't run from it."
Now you've swung the pendulum the complete opposite direction. Maybe we should cut of our arms and lead really miserable lives just to test our mettle.
The problem with ex-pats who deride America isn't as much that they are running from anything, it's that some are making up all of these rationalizations just to make themselves leave. I think it's cool for someone to travel the world, but don't rationalize it by saying that the place you're leaving stinks.
We see this in a lot of ways. People are scared of change, and there's good reason for that. So to change they have to collect enough energy to make themselves go through the change.
But ignoring the spirit of travel and exploration in order to "lead your miserable life like a true man would"...nah, you can have that one all to yourself.
And if I did travel, it would be to the natural wonders of the United State, particularly anything mountain-y. I love the serenity of the mountains and that sort of clean, unadulterated air. America has plenty to offer in regards to travel, but of course one can't then impress the SWPL class with tales of a superficially edifying experience.
Yeah, liberals hate stuff like clean air and national parks.
My favorite sex tourist posts are probably Gorbachev's.
I think I agree with GLP.
I remember leaving college and hearing all the girls (at least the ones who were most likely to end up 30 and childless) bitching about how they wanted to travel the world, as if travel were an end in itself.
My wife has lots of single, lawyer friends, and all they do with their free time is travel abroad.
Hint: they're not going to find what's missing in their lives in some country filled with brown people. They haven't seemed to catch on yet though.
I travel abroad for work about one out of every six weeks. Honestly, I don't get why it's cool. As best I can tell, there are only two sorts of places. Places that are developed - where the people aren't really that different than Americans - and places that aren't - where everything but the people sucks. If I had to live abroad I'd go somewhere that's developed that isn't quite as "diverse" as the US. Switzerland, for example, is quite nice. The people, however, aren't meaningfully different from Americans besides the fact that the service is excellent since it's not provided by low class Americans.
If you think you'll be happier in a different country, move there and make a life for yourself. But "travel" is not an end in itself.
The whole men's travel thing is simply SWPL one-upsmanship/status seeking grafted onto the pick-up world. You went to Panama and received fellatio: well, a heartfelt congratulations from this commenter. As Foseti points out, this is no different than the lawyer chick who goes to South Africa for a week to join a tribal drum circle and posts some gloating pics on FB.
The urge to travel is universal, but so is the urge to return home. A lot happened while Odysseus was away from Ithaca.
I think the blogs do some service in that they remind men, that yes you can have a positive life for yourself and not be shamed into participating in a society that is morally and philosophically your bankrupt and more often than not acts as your enemy.
As for "MGTOW" on a broader scale, well we turned society into a global market and since men are not being paid in tangible or intangible goods for participating, they shouldn't participate.
In a market society there are no freebies and every single thing must be paid for.
This may prove to be untenable since societies have run off free capital from their citizens since time immemorial but we shall see.
Foseti,
as you observed with those fem lawyers, I dated a girl for several years who was constantly deriding the States and American culture and extolling world travel. she always talked about wanting to move and travel and do all of those things, and i played that up in the beginning of our relationship. but it became clear that she was just one of these people that would be unhappy no matter where she was physically located. happiness isn't something that you absorb from the outside; it's something that is inside and infects your surroundings. what i saw in her was what i sometimes see in those who lament the States and American society and culture. not that many of the expat bloggers exude that attitude - moreso, it is the general attitude coming from the people who mock and deride the things that One mentioned in his post. it does have its problems, but a lot of it is just people talking themselves into their position.
as for the ex-girlfriend, she convinced me to go on a European trip in order to "see the world". we put it on credit cards of course. a year later we split and she shacked up with a Middle Eastern guy who she thought she could absorb culture from. after dating for a while she started hating the guy, but it was too late. she got more than culture. now she has a toddler and a horrid marriage.
There was scene in Gone With the Wind, where one of the SWPL type southerners was planning on spending his summer touring Europe. The rest of the guys in his social circle didn't get it. Their attitude was, we have the prettiest girls, fastest horses and best whiskey right here. Why do you want to be anywhere else?
LOLing at my inebriated genius/insanity. Now I know how Pat Hannagan feels.
Note to self: stay away from computers when drunk.
Justine:
I think FerBard is confusing me with OneSTDV, for some reason.
I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular when I blurted that out. It's not all about you, sweetheart.
To all:
Drunken id-fueled comments aside, I stand by the core principles of what I said. Yeah, it's all well and good if you can honestly say you have a contented home life, but the dream is dead.
I've become convinced that getting married is like getting lobotomized. Married men are intrinsically less interesting then bachelor; listening to the yip-yapping of some broad kills brain cells by definition. Remember that New England Review article that stated that virtually all the great innovators, artists, scientists etc. were bachelors? I finally understand why. Even here in the blogosphere, the perennial bachelors (Roosh, Mangan, Roissy, even Auster etc.) are better writers and clearer thinkers then the men with wife and kids in tow.
Marriage closes a man off from experiencing the world, for reasons both respectable and not. They become forlorn, withdrawn, satisfied with the same meaningless tasks and pleasures every day. Whenever I see married men in these comment threads barking loudly about how happy they are, I can't help but think of the Deltas from Brave New World, who derived such joy from operating elevators because they were mentally retarded.
Not saying there aren't happy and intelligent husbands out there, but they're not the norm. If you're already a mediocre, dull man, I suppose tying the knot won't hurt you any, but if you have any creative spark in you, don't even think about it. I hate that kind of passive-aggressive remark, but that's the best way to put it.
Ferd, I liked your original comment, drunk or not and the follow-on. What your saying though requires a corrective. I'll try to respond here later today.
http://www.adherents.com/people/100_scientists.html
Didn't go through the whole list, but four of the top five on this list were married.
Top musicians according to Rolling Stone.
Except for Jimi Hendrix, all of the top ten were married.
It's simply wishful thinking on your part to suggest that the most successful, accomplished people in the world were all bachelors.
(That's just a couple fields of endeavor. I can look up more, if you wish.)
On creativity and marriage: a real quick off the cuff -- what you're saying holds water for younger men. And for creative men whom history considers something of a crank. And men who tend to succumb to their girlfriends' hennish priorities.
But even eccentric cranks, though, like William Blake, to pull the first example that comes to mind -- were married.
With productive middle age, like John Milton, marriage almost seems a necessity. Ok, just pulling random examples of literary figures. Hopefully will have time to say more about thus later.
Traveling abroad makes me appreciate my own country all the more--and fearful for it is becoming.
Young "men" who behave the way you describe (I have no interest in reading their blogs), are highly dysfunctional human beings no better than the blacks people discuss here and elsewhere. They never grew up, are still locked in a toddler's mindset. Which is to say, they want everything given to them and when no one agrees, they go off where they can live an irresponsible life and no one cares. They are the opposite side of the same coin that spawns Leftists.
"I've become convinced that getting married is like getting lobotomized. Married men are intrinsically less interesting then bachelor; listening to the yip-yapping of some broad kills brain cells by definition."
But bachelors are so interesting: "Bro I just got totally wasted and negged and number closed this HB10 and fucked her in the ass in the toilet, bro it was hella sweet bro." Absolutely riveting!
"Marriage closes a man off from experiencing the world, for reasons both respectable and not."
Yeah, everyone should be down in third world South American countries keeping it real. Only ghettos and third world countries are authentic places where you can experience the world. Besides, it's not like a man can spend his twenties or even thirties doing stuff by himself and then settle down when he's around 30-40. That's just unheard of.
"They become forlorn, withdrawn, satisfied with the same meaningless tasks and pleasures every day."
Bro at least you're not repeating meaningless tasks by endlessly negging and number closing HB10s and drifting from one meaningless fling to another in an alcoholic stupor. You're saving Western civilization bro. The manosphere said so.
I don't like any of the "male travel" bloggers except Frost.
Mixed feelings on travel itself. I've lived in both South America and Eastern Europe and have traveled all over the place. I enjoyed it a lot, but traveling definitely wasn't the eye-opening "experience" that SWPLs like to claim it is. Many of the countries I visited were exactly what one would expect from cultural stereotypes.
The entire time I was living overseas, I felt an acute sense of not belonging in some fundamental way. A feeling that as interesting as (say) Spain or Russia were, I was just passing through, and they could never feel like home the way America does. Living in a country semi-permanently and dating a local woman lessed the feeling for me, but it didn't get rid of it completely.
One of the things that motivated me to travel was the same thing that motivates the travel bloggers -- the sense that things in America are steadily getting worse, so what do I have to lose by going elsewhere? On one level I didn't lose much, but on a deeper level I lost a whole sense of belonging and rootedness. The U.S., despite its ever-increaisng poz, just feels uniquely familiar and normal.
A thought: a guy like Roosh can bemoan how whorish and shallow American women are, but when he goes overseas and fucks a bumch of foreign naifs he's doing more than anyone else to spread American sexual degeneracy.
To paraphrase an old saying, don't be the change you don't want to see.
"
Marriage closes a man off from experiencing the world, for reasons both respectable and not. They become forlorn, withdrawn, satisfied with the same meaningless tasks and pleasures every day. Whenever I see married men in these comment threads barking loudly about how happy they are, I can't help but think of the Deltas from Brave New World, who derived such joy from operating elevators because they were mentally retarded."
Spoken like a true beta who knows he cannot compete in the real world for the ultimate scarce resource--the Alpha white female. It's easy for a white guy to hook a non-white--waaay too easy. No competition. Try traveling outside the brown world and see how much action you get--try Germany or France.
Lucille:
It's simply wishful thinking on your part to suggest that the most successful, accomplished people in the world were all bachelors.
Exactly. And I stand by that statement unless you can back up the opposite with hard evidence: the majority of successful, accomplished people, have been married. They are overwhelmingly not confirmed bachelors by any stretch of the imagination.
Son of a bitch, hit the submit button too soon. One, delete that comment:
Lucille:
It's simply wishful thinking on your part to suggest that the most successful, accomplished people in the world were all bachelors.
Found the New English Review article I was talking about:
http://www.newenglishreview.org/Orlet/Bachelorhood_And_Its_Discontents/
Here's a sampling from the list:
Ludwig van Beethoven
Johannes Brahms
Giacomo Casanova
Frederic Chopin
Nicolaus Copernicus
Eugène Delacroix
Rene Descartes
Gustave Flaubert
Galileo Galilei
Edward Gibbon
Vincent van Gogh
All bachelors.
PA:
But even eccentric cranks, though, like William Blake, to pull the first example that comes to mind -- were married.
Hmmm, maybe so. But even the men who were married didn't settle down and live a normal family life. They fell in love with women who were on the same wavelength as them, kept up their old ways, even if diminished a little.
Another example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_fiction_authors
All of the top ten were married.
I liked Ferd's first comment here.
And yes, there is something dismal as FUCK about american guys going off to south america, where the women's attractiveness is inversely correlated to how south american they are.
Basically, the New English Review was cherry-picking examples to prove a point, not examining the evidence in an unbiased fashion.
...
Galileo Galilei
...
All bachelors.
Galileo was married with kids.
Anon @ 4:19 -
Actually, he had children with a mistress.
Common-law wife. While technically he and Marina Gamba were never married, he lived for years in the same household with her and his three daughters. Hardly what I'd call a bachelor lifestyle.
Actually, now that I think about, it's rather reminiscent of what homosexuals and lesbians used to do in the bad old days of "intolerance". In those days, families of the well to do would pay their undesirable family members to leave--over seas was best of all, so that they wouldn't be socially embarrassed. These types of "children" from the not so well off were simply told to go and they moved to other cities where no one knew them.
Which in turn made me think of this:
http://books.google.com/books/about/The_homosexualization_of_America.html?id=30kZAAAAIAAJ
Which really does explain the whole "game" nonsense and other similar misanthropic lifestyles. Homosexual culture is/was always a "hook-up" way of life--no strings, just raw sex. Homosexuals are usually quite depressed people--which seems to be the case of atheists, aging singles and other disconnected types.
There are a lot of reasons to leave the USA other than getting laid. Here's a guy who rode a bike to Panama to go to the Dentist.
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=566414&highlight=sherpa&page=4
This thread has focused on young men leaving the USA, but there is a huge movement of American and European expats to the developing world and many of them are retirees. Some are small business operators. A lot of ex-military types like living overseas. This is really a red pill kind of thing. Once your eyes are opened to the fact that you just don't need a car payment, a car, or a house payment a lot of other possibilities open up. The guy in the link above tiled someone's kitchen in Costa Rica in exchange for food. Part of the appeal of foreign women is just novelty. Girls here in the USA will react favorably when meeting a foreigner while the same women keep the bitch shield in place for American men. The reverse is often true when traveling abroad. As a stranger and a novelty people open up to you, invite you into their homes, and are very friendly. I guess this is a variation of game--mysterious foreign stranger game... The new thing is young men fresh out of college are running overseas--there is little for them here.
@Lucille
You're debating a strawman -- the point is not that the most accomplished were lifelong bachelors, it's that they were bachelors when they did their best work.
As for the travel-writer-hate: I've found their perspectives useful. I've picked out a nice LA city to settle in, spent a reasonable amount of time there, and am now socking away money to buy property next year.
Aside from the manifest shortcomings of American women (primarily: they think they should try to be men, and necessarily fail at it), the problem with this country is a legal and social system resolutely rigged against men, functioning to turn them into pack mules for women who then hold them in contempt. Fuck that.
If you're happy to support such a system, good for you. OTOH:
"I admire the men that face their miserable lives head-on and don't run from it."
See also: stupid.
In many ways, a wife is less maintenance than serial dating. After a year or so, men don't really care much what you want. Having no woman around at all would maybe allow you to be the most productive.
The new thing is young men fresh out of college are running overseas--there is little for them here.
New to this country, but old news in the British Empire of yore. Due to primogeniture, the younger sons of the gentry had to make their own way in the world. This often meant going overseas to one of the colonies. Not infrequently these British transplants would "go native" and never come back.
I don't see why having young men leave is such a bad thing. It would be good for the men left behind.
"Japan, Greece, Italy, and the Netherlands/Belgium/Holland would probably be at the top of my list."
Try Austria, Switzerland and Southern Germany. Beautiful scenery, educated literate people, fairly NAM free in the countryside, and you will see what sort of beatiful, built-to-last towns and buildings hard working diligent people can accomplish. Best of all, you will earn absolutely no SWPL cred for enjoying it.
Most people I know who really need to keep traveling aren't healthy emotionally.
I have two SWPL sisters like this. Different ages, different cities. They love to travel until their money runs out and then they are stuck again in the grind. They are depressive and then the travel distracts them and then they wind up depressed again when they are back home. Their Facebooks are covered with happy travel pics to go with the happy pills that they take.
When I hang out with them it is frustrating because they can't really relax. They crave distraction, which isn't happening when there aren't activities going on.
I second what Peter A just said. You'll never look at strip malls and tract housing the same way again after seeing what a real town or small city should be.
Ferd,
I've never heard a man talk about how wonderful it is to be married.
Study after study says Ferd is wrong and that married men are happier. They also live much longer, and that ain't subjective.
Ferd will no doubt angrily insist that he no he is really happy. Which is why he's an alcoholic....?
I have not finished reading through all the comments, but this is a general response that is directed at Frost:
http://www.freedomtwentyfive.com/2011/12/on-travel/
I explicitly did not include you because I think you're different than the other guys.
My main beef is actually the indiscrminate hatred of everything American that is popular amongst travel bloggers. They hate American women ("they're all fat bitches"), marriage, the family, etc. They hate every single thing about America and their abject pessimism really grates me. Secondly, implicit to this anti-Americanism is the notion that foreign countries are so much more vibrant. This is an especially risible idea considering that so many travel bloggers go to South America. It also parallels the liberals who think neighborhoods full of black and brown people have more cultural vibrancy than the stable middle-class suburbs.
Third, you're completely unique in the travel genre as you're seeking physical, spiritual, and intellectual growth. Most travel bloggers just want to bang hookers, get drunk, and go to clubs. They have little interest in making real friendships, finding love, or establishing any sort of responsible lifestyle. They merely want to drop out of society instead of (\ironic black slang alert) "handling they bidness."
And back to one of my statements above: for god sakes, some men (many men in fact) actually want to get married and raise children. This is especially so as men leave their 20s. I'm sick of hearing manosphere bloggers state as fact that every man will be caught in a loveless marriage with some fat bitch. Learn LTR Game to undermine liberal SWPL shit tests and move to a middle-class city to avoid all the fatties.
"Ferd will no doubt angrily insist that he no he is really happy. Which is why he's an alcoholic....?"
Hey, Ferd can always use his buddy Pat Hannagan as a conterexample of a married man who's a bitter alcoholic. Let's see if he will.
Here's a study that shows married men (and women) are overwhelmingly happier than singles.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/301/are-we-happy-yet
And here's the specific marriage question.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/?ChartID=18
Sample size > 3000
Ferdinand Bardamu is intensely happy at all times, so maybe he is the exception that proves the rule.
Being married *to the right woman* has a way of cancelling out some of your worse and more self-destructive tendencies.
On a related note, my output, both on the internet and at work, has improved immensely first after I got married, and then after we had our first child.
Conversely though, being married to a fat bitch, or being a beta in marriage, is fate worse than being an unmarried omega, which at least offers freedom.
It is wonderful to be married. It is also comfortable, reassuring, convenient, and relaxing. I'm happily married, but it took me a long time and a lot of effort to get there. I think marriage is worth it, and monogamy is a key to our civilization, but we should not blind ourselves to the challenges facing young men and women today. The first step to solving the problem is admitting that it exists. Even as I right this there are people hard at work trying to re-inflate the housing bubble. The west could still be saved by a combination of de-leveraging and a return to traditional values. Every year this gets less likely.
If you have a cool wife, it isn't really the wife who is demanding, so much as the kids. Once they get older, that eases up.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that men who have stable LTRs (marriage is something of a red herring here) can put a lot of time they'd be spending chasing tail into something more productive.
Lucille:
All of the top ten were married.
Number one, four of those writers are women. We're talking about MEN here.
Number two, you seem to be conflating current popularity with having a lasting effect on the culture - the two are not the same. With the exception of Shakespeare (and very possibly Christie and Seuss), none of those writers are going to endure in history. Do you really think people will still be reading Danielle Steele's trashy romance novels in 200, 300 years? Get real.
Third, you're proving my point about great men being terrible at being husbands and fathers. Actors, musicians and writers get married, divorced, and remarried all the time, because they're constitutionally incapable of making a marriage work. Just from that list alone - Theodor Geisel (Seuss) drove his first wife to suicide when he had an affair. None of them live the white picket fence and 2.5 children in the suburbs lifestyle that CONservatives like you prefer.
Anonymous:
Common-law wife. While technically he and Marina Gamba were never married, he lived for years in the same household with her and his three daughters. Hardly what I'd call a bachelor lifestyle.
Last I checked, the Church (and society) frowned on bastardy. And you people claim I'M immoral?
RobertB:
Spoken like a true beta who knows he cannot compete in the real world for the ultimate scarce resource--the Alpha white female. It's easy for a white guy to hook a non-white--waaay too easy. No competition. Try traveling outside the brown world and see how much action you get--try Germany or France.
You sound exactly like the feminists - "You go to third-world countries because you can't get laid!"
I'm in the U.S. right now. I get with your precious white angels just fine. The problem is that feminism and capitalism have made them into inferior products, ersatz men with breasts. (Western men are useless geldings as well, but that's another topic.) Take (Western) white women off that pedestal - the fat, mannish whores are not as special as you think they are.
Anonymous:
Study after study says Ferd is wrong and that married men are happier. They also live much longer, and that ain't subjective.
Correlation does not equal causation. I addressed your argument here:
"*Anyone who claims to have statistics showing that married men are better off than single men is full of shit, and let me tell you why. While it’s true that married men are healthier, wealthier and “happier” (I dispute that a nebulous and fleeting emotion like happiness can even be quantified to begin with, but let’s roll with it) than bachelors, the numbers conveniently omit that the divorce rate is fifty percent – and that divorced men have poorer health, less money and are more miserable (and more likely to commit suicide) than either marrieds or singles. In other words, you have the same chances of reaping the benefits of marriage as getting heads on a coin toss. That sound like good odds to you?
Also, these raw statistics ignore the possibility that correlation is not causation. While it might be true that marriage makes men richer and healthier, it could just as easily be the other way around – wealthier, healthier men are more likely than poor and unhealthy ones to get married. Who is more likely to get married and be well-adjusted, a SWPL couple or a white trash couple? To ask the question is to answer it."
http://www.inmalafide.com/blog/2011/10/10/man-up-you-losers-the-wimmenz-demand-it/
the point is not that the most accomplished were lifelong bachelors, it's that they were bachelors when they did their best work.
That isn't what F.B. said. Also, your claim that they were single "when they did their best work" is similarly unproven.
Lara:
I've never heard a man talk about how wonderful it is to be married.
Then you don't read these blogs closely enough. Here at One's and Mangan's, whenever the topic turns to marriage, there's always a group of "men" who crow about how happy they are, and that men who (rightfully) avoid marriage because of the very real risks involved are "losers" who need to "man up."
I have difficulty believing them for the simple reason that the more you repeat an assertion, the less convincing it becomes.
Side note, I suspect ending the welfare state and putting (legal, social) responsibility for children where it belongs (on women)* would go a long way toward fixing the problems.
*Her body, her choice, her responsibility.
Some reasons I am happy about my marriage and family? (I am one with a tendency to be deeply depressive, when I was single).
(1) On those nights when I am awake and the dread of emptiness rears its head, it quickly subsides when I look at my sleeping wife and kids.
(2) Marriage is ***a lot*** less work than being in the game.
(3) My wife takes care of me, better than I took care of myself.
(4) In our supposedly post-apocalyptic world, my marriage and family success actually makes me feel like a badass. A serious winner. Like a soldier who survived the warzone unharmed, bullets flying. When I get through our fights I also feel like this. People who shy away are missing this thrill.
Last I checked, the Church (and society) frowned on bastardy. And you people claim I'M immoral?
Lame retort. Point is that Galileo makes it onto that bachelor list only on a technicality. Not a major point, I admit, but the listmaker has slightly undermined his own position by including him.
The best-selling writers list was only one of three categories I cited. Also, here's
Here's another list, one that more closely approaches an attempt at defining the literary canon. And to answer another objection, I'll limit myself to the men on the list:
George Orwell - married
Henrik Ibsen - married
Gustave Flaubert - bachelor
William Faulkner - married
Mark Twain - married
Virgil - unknown
Leo Tolstory - married
Alfred Doblin - married
Jose Saramago - married
Fernando Pessoa - ?
Fyodor Dostoevsky - married
Thomas Mann - married
Geoffery Chaucer - married
Franz Kafka - bachelor (?)
Jorge Luis Borges - married (later in life)
And so on.
I'll tell you what: you give me a field of endeavor, and I'll tell you whether most of the successful men in that field were married or not.
Lucille:
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/scitech/SciTechRepublish_898675.htm
"Scientists rather quickly desist (from their careers) after their marriage, while unmarried scientists continue to make great scientific contributions later in their lives[.]"
I'll take the referenced survey over your opinion, thank you very much.
"Scientists rather quickly desist (from their careers) after their marriage, while unmarried scientists continue to make great scientific contributions later in their lives[.]"
Why is this considered AGAINST marriage?
Perhaps these men found something more spiritually uplifting than work - as in the love of his wife and family. They no longer needed to lose themselves in work to find value in life; they found it via their family.
You're a bore.
When Ferd in his usual drunken stupor walks in front of a bus one day, who will go to his funeral? He'll say he doesn't care of course.
from lonerider "There’s a white woman
With big fake tits
Got a golf course running through her backyard
She thinks she got it so good
Ain’t that America…..
Big monthly bills for you and me….
After canceling the pizza (no way, an hour is too long, bye) and picking up some gut-rot from Mickey D’s (large choc shake, please) to push down my throat last night, I flicked on the TV in my classy motel room (some kind of wallpaper strip running along the top of the walls, greater value) to check out the news. First time in about a month to be blasted with these electronic dead rays. Nope, nothing has changed. Am I the only one that feels either insulted or fears that the IQ of the American people has followed the level of the Salton Sea?
Take heart, fellow man, there’s a new Wal*Mart opening somewhere near you within the next few months. Ain’t that America….
So many pills available for headaches. Dozens. What’s beyond an ‘ache’? Explosion, maybe? But we also have pills for that, as we do for any ailment, trauma, itch, etc – real or perceived. Pop a couple and get right back on the train, easy as that. Quick fix-it.
Moto trips are great, love them. And the further away they take me, the better. I’ve taken a few over the past few years and each one has made the problem worse, not better. A break from the norm, rejuvenation, clearing the mind, etc. I didn’t realize what a powerful drug this was when I first started taking the doses. Sure, I felt good, but addiction can be hard to read. At some point, you admit it and either accept it, or make a decision to change your ways. As said, maybe some of us just need to learn how far we can fall before hitting bottom.
I’m crossing the border in the morning, riding into Mexico and maybe a few parts of Central America for about seven weeks….headed towards the bottom. Though, I know it won’t be found on this trip. More doses, heavier doses. Certified addict.
Best Buy has that new 400 gig whatchumacallit in stock. How bout them heated seats in that new Caddy pick-up truck, huh? Titanium BBQ grills are all the rage. Ain’t that America….
The DR’s tires are fresh. 1,000 on the front TKC and maybe 2,000 on the rear Mefo (name sucks but tire seems great). New chain and sprockets, but kinda wished I’d left the old stud intact. It looked really good. If I were not taking a laptop and video gear, everything I’m taking along could fit inside the Dirt Bagz. Cheap motels (hopefully), not camping.
First part of the plan is riding to the Yucatan to do some research stuff with a few interesting stops along the way so I don’t get bored or pissed off. Ruinas Maximus or some such foolishness. The leftover wad of Quetzales have been burning a hole in my jacket pocket for many months, so I’ll fix that problem, too. Another five days of Spanglish classes wouldn’t hurt too much, but the where and when are unknown at this time. Maybe Oaxaca. Heard there were some ‘disagreements’ being voiced down there and that might be a good place. I’ve located some new-to-me and interesting border crossings between Mex/Guat and Mex/Belice that I might try.
Excited about taking another large dose would be an understatement. Don’t just fix me, drown me, please, Senor. Weird is cool. If you know of some off-the-beaten-path places, I’d love to hear about them.
I’ll post pics and updates when possible. Getting the USA out of my system will take a few days. May you receive a great new credit card offer in the mail tomorrow…. "
This comment sums it up. Travel is a drug, or perhaps an antidote.
Perhaps these men found something more spiritually uplifting than work - as in the love of his wife and family.
So .... your position is that the personally gratifying takes precedence over the socially useful, except when what men find personally gratifying (for the sake of argument: sex and drugs and reggaeton) doesn't meet with your approval? IOW, it's all about whether or not you agree with/find acceptable another man's preferences as to how he spends his brief time on this earth?
Okay then. Thanks for sharing.
the thing about Roosh is, hes a muslim from the middle east who complains about western women. His solution is to use them for sex and travel the world to find non western women to ....use for sex. A real muslim man would force his woman (wife) to obey him and then he would have nothing to complain about--But roosh is a typical western man, a complainer who has given up on family and traditional marriage and embraced hedonism and ultimately self destruction. Roosh has become the flip side of everything he hates...the fat american woman.--he is a selfish hedonistic american man.-- and no decent woman would have him ...hes damned if he does, damned if he dont--as an american hedonist he gets the high volume of pussy he craves, but he cant get the decent woman he longs for.
Roosh's blog is full of valuable advice, yet I don't find myself reading it often. He never seems particularly happy with his lifestyle or the person he's become.
"I've never heard a man talk about how wonderful it is to be married."
I have.
I would describe them as intelligent (IQ 110-120) high betas, not alphas and the wives were religious, good looking with very healthy sex drive. Basically their conformity, risk aversion, good health and good looks got them comparable wives and that was enough to satisfy both partners.
FB said:
"I'm in the U.S. right now. I get with your precious white angels just fine. The problem is that feminism and capitalism have made them into inferior products, ersatz men with breasts. (Western men are useless geldings as well, but that's another topic.) Take (Western) white women off that pedestal - the fat, mannish whores are not as special as you think they are."
Okay--
For one thing, I can positively guarantee you have never "gotten with" my precious angels--nor anyone like them. They don't hang out in bars like cheap sluts.
For more than my life time it has been common knowledge that women who hang out in bars and sleep with anonymous men are sluts. I believe this common folk wisdom is as old as booze. There is no such thing as an alpha female hanging out in a bar. All you have ever known is the dregs of society.
I have never known a fat broad intimately and never will. No woman has ever tried to control me as I have never let a woman control me. Alpha women chose Alpha males precisely because they are man enough to conquer their own worlds and make that world a safe place for that woman and her children. It has always been thus and always will be.
Little boys who go on hanging out in bars well past college age are not attractive to alpha females. They never have been. You are lying to yourself to think otherwise. Bars and clubs are filled either kids in college, or the second rate--period. Adults grow up and move on. They go to cocktail parties (just got home from one), the go to dinner parties and they go to shows--but they do not hang out in bars expecting to meet anyone of value.
I figured that one out at age 21--and I was legally allowed to drink at age 18. I used to go to neighborhood bars at 16 on an avenue and area voted top ten recently by some national magazine. Point is, is I watched those older than me perform the dance. The women in those bars didn't live there--for the most part. Most of the men did. The women came looking for alpha males because the neighborhood was full of them. I won't say that none of them ever hooked a live one, but for the most part, all they got was laid. Alpha males aren't stupid.
What I learned about bars was that they were full of skanky men and skanky women all agreeing to believe each other's lies--so they could claim to have won some prize. you can always tell a loser by the shoes he wears. Cheap, shitty shoes. The beta females hanging out in the bars wouldn't know a pair of Florsheims from Allan Edmonds.
I may not agree with their reasons, but I can't oppose anything that provides more information on leaving the country. If you live in America, you're under 30, and you're not putting together an escape plan, you're insane, because this country will go Third World in your lifetime.
I don't think it's about travel anymore. I found myself talking to a SWPL earlier today who plans to travel to Switzerland, not to get SWPL cred, but as the first step in moving there. (She cited American immigration policy as a main reason why she wanted to leave. I almost pointed her to the alt-right, but decided it'd be better not to drop taqiyya.) I know a guy who, unfortunately for him, went to Oxford as the first step in moving to Britain, and a girl who went to Trinity and seems to be planning on moving to Ireland. My travel outside the country is the same. I'm not looking to see the world, although that's a good side effect; I'm looking for a place to go. I have no home, no connections to this country, and it'd take a hammer to the head to convince me that it'd be anything less than absurd for me to stay here.
But yes, I'll grant that the nihilism is rather painful. I don't care about whether the girls are hotter in Latvia or Iceland; I care about whether the country will still exist in a recognizable, First World form fifty years from now.
Twenty:
So .... your position is that the personally gratifying takes precedence over the socially useful, except when what men find personally gratifying (for the sake of argument: sex and drugs and reggaeton) doesn't meet with your approval? IOW, it's all about whether or not you agree with/find acceptable another man's preferences as to how he spends his brief time on this earth?
Okay then. Thanks for sharing.
+1
One, you're a hypocrite. You can't shame men like Roosh for choosing to travel the world because it brings them joy and defend married men on that same basis. Either both men are shirking their duty to society (since I'm pretty sure that new scientific discoveries are more important than having kids, which any idiot can do) or neither one is, and their choices are equally valid.
One, you're way too young to be sounding this prissy and fogey-ish. Come down off your high horse and rejoin the rest of us grinders.
Also Twenty, thanks for the article about the marriage study. This all has given me fodder for a post next week on why marriage makes men stupid. Lord knows, there's plenty of evidence for it in these here comments.
RobertB:
Little boys who go on hanging out in bars well past college age are not attractive to alpha females. They never have been. You are lying to yourself to think otherwise. Bars and clubs are filled either kids in college, or the second rate--period. Adults grow up and move on. They go to cocktail parties (just got home from one), the go to dinner parties and they go to shows--but they do not hang out in bars expecting to meet anyone of value.
You are quite possibly the most clueless and delusional person I've ever exchanged words with on the Internet. You're not even remotely close to knowing anything about what you speak of.
"Dinner parties"? What is this, Victorian England? Your references betray your age and your social class. You are utterly oblivious to the fact that the world you grew up in has severely contracted in size, if not vanished completely.
I don't know what kind of incestuous social circles you inhabit, but here's the cold truth - everyone under the age of 55 goes to bars. The high-class, the low-class, men, women, everyone. Not necessarily looking to get picked up, but simply to socialize with their friends and enjoy themselves. The only people who avoid them are the shy, the teetotalers or the devoutly religious (and apparently the weirdos you hang out with). Yes, there is a low-class contingent at bars, but they're in the minority and have been since the culture started coarsening in the 60's.
The only way you can possibly claim that "Alpha females" can't be found in bars is to utterly mutilate the definition of one. You don't get to change the definitions of phrases to suit your ends. The spoiled brat WASP headcases you think are the epitome of the female race are not desired by anyone. The world does not revolve around you and what you think.
"Cheap, shitty shoes"? The opinions of a blue blood snob like yourself are completely worthless for anyone who didn't have the good fortune to be born a Rockefeller.
Christ almighty, get out of the Silk Stocking District and spend some time with the hoi polloi. Don't worry - we're not carrying anything contagious. You might even learn something.
By the way, if you think that all the women I've been with I picked up at bars, you are incredibly and painfully wrong. But given the idiotic statements you've made so far, that's just par for the course.
Twenty:
"Scientific productivity indeed fades with age," Dr Kanazawa says.
This raises the possibility of a confounding factor. I'd like to see the full analysis, but I can't find it online. It's probably in a subscription-only archive.
Let me ask you: did you read the full academic paper? Because this brief newspaper summary does not in fact contain any data, just the researcher's conclusion.
As for "my opinion" - I've made an effort to provide evidence to back up my opinion, and I'll repeat my offer: Name any line of endeavor, and I will examine whether the most notable personalities in that field were married or single.
One, you're a hypocrite. You can't shame men like Roosh for choosing to travel the world because it brings them joy and defend married men on that same basis. Either both men are shirking their duty to society (since I'm pretty sure that new scientific discoveries are more important than having kids, which any idiot can do) or neither one is, and their choices are equally valid.
How many men are making these important scientific contributions? This bit about great scientists is irrelevant to what we're discussing because they're such a small group. Plus, every single professor I know is married.
As to your (admittedly good) point about being a hypocrite: there's a difference in that married men stay in society and nurture it. They have children, engage in community socializing, coach kids' sports, and provide the backbone of their communities and society as a whole. Men like Roosh drop out then champion hedonistic nihilism, along with "America sucks man, I'm going to the glorious utopia of Latin America with all those hot brown women", as more worthwhile than sustaining society.
That's the big difference. And in the end, I'd also argue that married men ultimately find something far more personally valuable, love and family, than Roosh does banging underage hookers in some third-world youth hostel.
I'll repeat: the "man travelers" mirror the race liberals who think staid suburbia is so "boring" and whatever foreign brown land, like Brazil, is so "real" and "vibrant."
I'm an old time patron of the manosphere and this is perhaps the aspect I find most disagreeable about it. I'm Eastern European myself and I tend to hold the Westerners who come here looking for nookie in very low regard. I think the image some have of the women here is highly idealized - we have our fair share of bar skanks, ball-cutting succubi, fatties, lawyer cunts and the like, so even though they can't hold a candle to the uber-sluts of Western Europe, they still possess many of the flaws that seem to make American women less than ideal mate choices. Arguably, feminism is not well established as official ideology here, but the forces of the sexual market still reign supreme.
At best, I find it a last resort solution for greater beta types. Roosh is definitely an exception to the rule, most guys who go East for an easy lay are laughable herbs who mostly rely on wallet game and get ripped off by the first opportunistic skank they take a shine to.
Also, while I personally don't like to indulge in "playa hatin", a lot of the local menfolk are less than happy about this development, and will not welcome these guys with open arms. Just like Westerners are unhappy about immigrants or minorities "stealing their women", so to speak, so do some of the men here resent seeing the local girls getting snatched by foreigners. So altercations may occasionally ensue. Buyer beware.
Concerning the eXile, I must say I've never liked it, for reasons completely unrelated to their alleged debauchery. While Ames&co deluded themselves that they had escaped the matrix of the American corporate media, they became part of something even worse, which is an outlet for Russian propaganda and pan-slavic chauvinism. Kinda like RussiaToday, only in print. I'd advise all of you to take what those guys say with a grain of salt, to say the least.
"Roosh does banging underage hookers in some third-world youth hostel"
1. I haven't banged a hooker, ever.
2. I haven't stayed in a hostel in over 3 years.
3. I haven't been to a third world country in over 3 years.
Are you still reading my old blog at DCbachelor.com? I have since updated that to RooshV.com where you can read about my more current experiences.
Right now I'm in this land called Europe. It has countries such as Iceland, Denmark, and Poland, which are in many ways superior to the United States when it comes to economy, quality of life, and women. You should use the internet to read more about other these mysterious civilizations. If you like what you read, you can hop on a machine called an airplane and visit.
I find that many guys are fearful of the unknown. This fear comes out in blind contempt for people who are trying to better their lives. If you need advice on how to brave it through your first international trip outside of your suburban culdesac, feel free to contact me.
@Dan Hess
"Marriage is ***a lot*** less work than being in the game."
It certainly is. Most men, even with game, are not good at meeting and picking up women. I like game because I think it gives men a way of dealing with empowered, brimming with confidence American women. As a tool to meet and bed many women, I don't think it works very well.
ioan,
American men are spoiled, and have the benefit of a rich and powerful country behind them, which is why they think they can get away with that.
@nydwracu
Moving to Ireland to avoid decline in the US is retarded. It'll probably achieve third-worldism before the US does. At best you'll buy a couple extra years.
Switzerland may give you a couple extra decades, but that's it.
The problem with trying to leave the US is that the US has taken over the world. The truth is that you can't really leave the US unless you move to Myanmar or Afghanistan (sort of) or maybe parts of Russia. The problem, then, is that you would actually have to live in one of those places.
This is fundamentally why "traveling" comes down more to status-seeking than anything else. The US took over the vast majority of the world in the '40s and '50s. You can't really escape it.
Ferdinand wrote: "...the perennial bachelors (Roosh, Mangan, Roissy, even Auster etc.) are better writers and clearer thinkers then the men with wife and kids in tow."
Does this mean VFR signed on to the No Fat Chicks challenge?
@Foseti "Switzerland may give you a couple extra decades"
A couple extra decades before what happens?
OneSTDV:
[ ]told
[ ]damn told
[x]for whom the bell told
Here's the deal.
Men who fuck lots of women do so because they can. STDV and others who claim marriage is so amazing blah blah balh -
IF YOU COULD GET AWAY WITH BANGING LOTS OF NEW WOMEN EACH YEAR/MONTH/WEEK, YOU'D DO IT TOO!
So much self-righteous hypocrisy, it's unreal.
Why get married when you can enjoy so much new pussy all the time? I mean really, what the fuck are you all pretending to be saints for?
RobertB -
"For more than my life time it has been common knowledge that women who hang out in bars and sleep with anonymous men are sluts. I believe this common folk wisdom is as old as booze. There is no such thing as an alpha female hanging out in a bar. All you have ever known is the dregs of society. "
Quite possibly the most ridiculous misconception in the world.
This may have been true 30+ years ago, but not anymore.
Let me tell you about some of the dregs I've picked up at my favorite bars/clubs:
- Harvard Medical Doctor who was 31 years old. Had been in a relationship for over 6 years. Banged her the same night I met her, she liked it raw.
- Princeton College Student (must have had an IQ over 130) who came from a family worth millions, 22 years old. This girl was a straight up whore. Same night bang.
- Sweet, innocent Social Workers/Nannies/Teachers who would melt your heart. All were 28 years old. Odd they were all 28. All of them had been in relationships over 4 years. All put out on the first date!
= 18 year old girl raised on a farm by her loving father and business woman mother. She was practically a virgin, less than 3 men had penetrated her before me. Took two dates! So innocent!
- Physicist (does it get any more intelligent than this?). 25 years old. This one was a massive sex fiend. Took a date.
- A girl raised in a strict catholic household, who spoke over 4 languages, working in a hospital for foreigners. 24 years old. She traveled to Italy, she was a whore. Took two dates for her! She held out long!
- MIT Grad who spoke 2 languages and majored in Engineering. 23 years. Relationship over 2 years. Took a date to bang her.
- Editor who worked for some Jews, making 80K+ a year. 29 years old. Had been engaged to a man after 6 years, before she broke it off. Banged her the same night I met her!
So tell me... which one of these girls were losers? 75% of the girls I've banged were more successful than most men! And please note their relationship history I've included. Most of them were good LTR girls.
Here are some other loser girls I've seen:
- A valedictorian of my old high school at one of the SEEDIEST clubs in Boston!
- Every type of professional woman you can imagine (Dentists, Doctors, Lawyers, Saleswomen, Businesswomen who make 100k+, Real Estate Agents)
- Actors, musicians, dancers, DJ's, recruiters, and promoters
I haven't met any bankers yet, but I guess it's just a matter of time. But if you were to argue that bankers are the creme de la creme of American society, I suppose us men are gonna be hard up for wives when only the top .025% of American society qualifies.
So, in short, RobertB has no fucking clue. I'm glad I could update you to the reality of 2011.
samseau: "IF YOU COULD GET AWAY WITH BANGING LOTS OF NEW WOMEN EACH YEAR/MONTH/WEEK, YOU'D DO IT TOO! [...] Why get married when you can enjoy so much new pussy all the time"
I know this concept is difficult for PUAs to understand (since you're all retarded), but not everyone likes the same things.
"Quite possibly the most ridiculous misconception in the world.
This may have been true 30+ years ago, but not anymore.
Let me tell you about some of the dregs I've picked up at my favorite bars/clubs:"
Your list has nothing buts sluts in it, e.g. exactly the dregs of society RobertB was talking about. You've just proven him correct. I'm not sure if that was somehow your intention or if you're just really bad at this.
"So tell me... which one of these girls were losers?"
Uh... all of them?
Samseau,
Do you require a girl's resume before you take her out?
Most guys I know just refer to their former conquests as blonde, brunette, or redhead.
"I know this concept is difficult for PUAs to understand (since you're all retarded), but not everyone likes the same things."
All men like sex, even the gay ones.
Lara -
"Do you require a girl's resume before you take her out?"
Well, Lara, since you're interested, you can send your credentials over to iamsam.seau@gmail.com, and please be sure to include a few letters of recommendation. Make sure your photo is up to date.
LOL, samseau is about as credible as RobertB. This board is rife with grown men living in fantasyland.
samseau: "All men like sex, even the gay ones."
Everyone also likes food, but that doesn't mean we all eat the same food in the same places in the same quantities.
Once you accept the fact that successful PUAs are negligible in number and virtually nonexistent in the over-35 age group -- because most men do not have the energy, temperament, desire, or aptitude to be one -- everything else will fall nicely into place.
The underlying truth about living abroad is that wherever you go, there you are. If you are the kind of person who needs a lot of variety and can handle some (or a lot) of risk and unpredictability, then travel may be very rewarding for you.
The flip side is that it can be very lonely and if you want a support network of friends and family you will probably have to start again from scratch and there may be built-in cultural challenges.
Much of life is just...life. Getting up, finding stuff to eat, working, enduring the weather, communicating with other people. If you are in one place long enough to really get to know it, no matter how "exotic" it is compared to home, it will eventually get to be humdrum as well.
While I think there are differences between peoples and nations have certain characters, all people seem programmed to play power games, and if you are the kind of person who can be used and abused easily at home, there will be people anywhere you go who will easily suss that out and exploit it.
My experiences abroad were largely not enjoyable, but I learned so much about myself and my own culture that in retrospect I consider the experience one of the most valuable of my life. Far more valuable than college, esp. undergrad. It was a permanent reality check, very humbling.
Travel is good for the soul. I pity men who have never left the USA. They don't realise what the world is really like. Roosh and others like him are visionaries.
All of the betas who rail on and on about how happy they are with their fat American wife are funny. Pathetic and funny.
Roissy was right about social conservatives: they are all hopeless white knights.
"Travel is good for the soul. I pity men who have never left the USA. They don't realise what the world is really like."
This isn't the ancient world. If you want to find out what's going on elsewhere, just visit the Internet. And what does "really like" even mean? An American whitopia isn't any more or less real than a slum in India. They're just different places.
"Roosh and others like him are visionaries."
Yes, these guys are true pioneers for visiting other countries. They're really going where no man has gone before.
"All of the betas who rail on and on about how happy they are with their fat American wife are funny. Pathetic and funny."
Yes, all American women are fat. No exceptions.
I'm stating the obvious, but PUAs really are mentally challenged.
Roosh and others like him are visionaries.
Right. It's not like earlier generations ever traveled the world or lived abroad. We needed Roosh to show us the way.
@foseti:
I'd agree on Ireland, but Switzerland I'm not so sure about. Its current status shows that it's easily capable of resisting the fads that occasionally sweep the developed world, although who knows if it'll manage to resist the multicult that killed the US and UK.
I can't say with any certainty yet, but I'd guess there are a few countries in the developed world capable of resisting the immigration/multiculturalism trend, which is by far the most dangerous one out there today. Finland may be viable, depending on how successful Soini, Halla-aho, etc. are as politicians, and Iceland is also a possibility.
(Cliff Arroyo)
"All men like sex, even the gay ones"
I thought _especially_ the gay ones.
The funny thing is that successful PUAs come about as close as straight men can to the old cliches about sexual promiscuity among gay men.
Samseau:
So tell me... which one of these girls were losers? 75% of the girls I've banged were more successful than most men! And please note their relationship history I've included. Most of them were good LTR girls.
All of your girlfriends are losers because they had sex with you. Face it Samseau, you're just an inferior beta male. Listen to the wisdom of Lord RobertB von Snickertwit and his degenerate wannabe aristocrat buddies. Real alpha males lust after lantern-jawed Columbia grads on trust funds. Want to know if a woman is quality? It has nothing to do with her sweetness, attractiveness, or femininity - it has to do with her ability to identify shoe brands.
But seriously, that comment by Robert was one of the dumbest, most ignorant things I've ever read. There's right, there's wrong, and then there's batshit insanity. I can't fathom how one of the beautiful people can be so completely and willfully provincial.
Go to South Africa, pick one white girl now excluded from the local economy, the sole country I can see the expat scheme work due to unfavorable circumstances. Otherwise, the Roosh et al are selling dreams, been to all those countries; or alternatively, American women must be the horror.
@Robert B says:
"What I learned about bars was that they were full of skanky men and skanky women all agreeing to believe each other's lies--so they could claim to have won some prize."
After early 20s, this seems to be the case. I don't care for drunk men, and I've never met anyone who I was interested in, in a bar.
"For more than my life time it has been common knowledge that women who hang out in bars and sleep with anonymous men are sluts."
For Robert's generation this was very true. It's the younger guys who have lowered their expectations.
@Ferdinand
"Dinner parties"? What is this, Victorian England?
Women of Robert's generation knew how to entertain and did so often.
OneSTDV:
As to your (admittedly good) point about being a hypocrite: there's a difference in that married men stay in society and nurture it. They have children, engage in community socializing, coach kids' sports, and provide the backbone of their communities and society as a whole. Men like Roosh drop out then champion hedonistic nihilism, along with "America sucks man, I'm going to the glorious utopia of Latin America with all those hot brown women", as more worthwhile than sustaining society.
What I don't understand is how you can champion married life with a straight face. You yourself have admitted that you don't plan on marrying or having children; on what basis can you criticize other men for doing the same?
I expect the "man up" rhetoric from older guys like Justine or Lord RobertB von Snickertwit who have some years behind them and, to their credit, have walked the walk. From someone like yourself - young, single, atheist - it rings completely hollow and fake. You've barely lived life and yet you're adopting the pose of a grizzled veteran of the culture wars.
What right do you have to demand that other men make a sacrifice that you are unwilling to make yourself? In practice, you're doing the exact thing Roosh and those in the manosphere are doing - turning your back on society out of selfishness. The only difference is that they're at least honest about it.
I don't intend this to be a personal attack. Ever since you started adopting this moralizing, pseudo-Christian tone, I've found you increasingly less credible as a thinker. You're too smart and too young to succumb to this facile, hypocritical bullshit.
If you want to be taken seriously on this issue, you have to take your own advice. Man up, find a wife, and hand over your pound of flesh for the cause. Otherwise, step down from the pulpit and get the beam out of your eye before you criticize the motes in ours.
Prudes aren't made, they're born.
It's very difficult for a deeply conservative individual to not have some amount of outright contempt for PUAs, even as he simultaneously admires them for shaking the foundations of a corrupt world.
@anon:
"A couple extra decades before what happens?"
If the US goes to shit, basically everyone else goes with it.
@nydwracu:
You're probably right that the countries you list are better options than the US, but they don't seem to be the travel destinations of the male travel bloggers.
If the US goes to shit, basically everyone else goes with it.
What will US going to shit look like in Switzerland?
And will thayt be a that a good thing or a bad thing? A strong USG seems to be the bigger threat to Switzerland, given, if you subscribe to the theories that America is the exporter of multiracialism and female obesity.
Go to South Africa, pick one white girl now excluded from the local economy, the sole country I can see the expat scheme work due to unfavorable circumstances.
It might be a good place to pick up a white girl for marriage...but you sure as hell don't want to stick around there. That place is ready to blow. Hell, even the liberal group Genocide Watch put SA in the red-alert category. The few remaining whites are about to be purged from the place.
http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html
I didn't cross the border, the border crossed ME. I **USED** to live in just about Paradise -- Southern California, overwhelmingly White, middle class, comfortable, and SAFE. Now I live in a third world hell-hole.
So, nope I'm not inclined to travel to a third world hell-hole, since I already live in one.
I'll add that unlike most here I HAVE traveled to other countries. New Zealand, just about Paradise. I wish I could live there as a permanent resident/citizen, because it embodied the White middle class ideal of SoCal as it no longer exists.
I'm not interested in banging underage chicks, more interested in living a solidly middle class lifestyle, in a place filled with people who look like me, speak my language, and share my culture.
Hong Kong is a model of Blade Runner, only not as cool. Beijing is my idea of hell, and Xian is Beijing only worse. London is a ruin of a great city, like Rome in 500 AD. I never saw the appeal of the Third World. Give me decent plumbing, and safe streets, and English as the language. In Beijing there are donkey carts on the freeways, and guard rails stick out like spears from old accidents ready to spear oncoming traffic that is not wary. PLA trucks carrying coal trundle alongside the elite's luxury sports cars. Who wants to live a place like that?
I'll add that unlike most here I HAVE traveled to other countries
Whiskey, you pompous twat, most of us here HAVE traveled to other countries. It's probably only the minority here who haven't. So get off your high horse. Who do you think you are, RobertB? (Hmmm....)
In the late 1990's, a fad for newly flush tech workers and others capitalizing on the fast growth economy was to take long weekend trips to Iceland to have a shot at gorgeous Nordic women for a one night stand who would be otherwise out of their league in the US. Icelandic maidens usually spoke fluent English and had a reputation for having a very generous sliding scale when it came to romantic pairings with foreign men looking for sex.
The whole thing reeked of a desperation that was one step away from getting a hooker. I could never, ever imagine going to such an expense only for the chance at bagging an attractive babe. It also seemed like an admission of not having any pull with women in your own country.
FB--
You must come from a really really low brow background. Upper middle class women do not behave the way the trash you associate with do--even now. I have a daughter at Bryn Mawr. Any young woman there who walks the "walk of shame" is instantly reduced to low end status--and even as college girls, they have little dinner parties and cocktail parties. I do these things because my parents did them, and, like my peers, I imitate my parents. My children will do the same because they were brought up that way--it's how you socialize. This--and texting, is not socializing. I'm not quite sure what it is, but it is not socializing. That requires face to face contact.
At my son's college, those that party--seemingly especially young women, and return to the dorms late at night are kicked out of the dorms--sometimes in the middle of the night.
If those of you who are "young" and have never been to or had a cocktail party--not to be confused with PA's shot festivals, or a dinner party--why don't you just try it? You all say you want to live life like people once did, well, here you go. You do not need a lot of money to do this, Even wealthy people when young followed this course:
Write up a guest list. Prepare a menu--there should be four or five courses plus desert. A wine list--one for the soup and what have you, another for the main course. One glass to each guest per course.
Next, divvy up the courses per your guests along with the wine list. Cocktails should (but don't have to be) provided by the host. The host should prepare the main course--no takeout or fast food allowed. If you cannot afford the booze for the cocktails, then make it a BYOB type party.
Set a time on a Saturday night. People should be dressed at least dress casual--no fucking jeans. Guys should at least wear a jacket--tie not necessary, though it is nice. Dinner should be planned for between 7 and 8PM with guests arriving one hour before hand. This allows time for the kitchen organization to take place. That one hour is also the cocktail hour before dinner.
Dinner should be served one course at a time. Two hours should be alloted for dining--this is about good food and good conversation. Seating around the table should be assigned and guests should be mixed up--do not have couples sitting next to each other. However, the seating should be man, woman, man, woman around the table.
For those of you on a budget, this is much cheaper than hanging out in bars, much more agreeable to the pallet and much more dignified way to meet people. I suggest cigars and a good wiskey or port after dinner for the men, the women can clean up and then all rejoin for a "night cap" and go home.
You have nothing to lose, just give it a shot. The idea is, is that the host/hostess rotate from one home to the next. At least once a month amongst your friends. Invite an attractive single neighbor for your single friend or sibling.
Sometimes it helps to break the ice by having a topic to start off the meal with. It is the hostess' job, however, to begin that conversation. it is also her job to make sure everyone is introduced to one another.
I think it's really quite sad that some of you seem to think this is stuff out of movies. I assure you it is not. People still live this way. Of course, when one grows up, one is expected as host to provide everything. But, those invited are expected to have parties as well--or they don't get invited to other parties.
"I don't intend this to be a personal attack. Ever since you started adopting this moralizing, pseudo-Christian tone, I've found you increasingly less credible as a thinker. You're too smart and too young to succumb to this facile, hypocritical bullshit."
The words of a misanthropic ne'er do well who will be saying the same thing when he's 40 and looking like a fool chasing women in a bar while they laugh behind his back.
Grow the fuck up, you sound like a complete idiot. A shrink would do you some good. My guess is, is you had absentee parents that dumped you off at the daycare every day.
"IF YOU COULD GET AWAY WITH BANGING LOTS OF NEW WOMEN EACH YEAR/MONTH/WEEK, YOU'D DO IT TOO!"
In your dreams, poser.
I did all of that as a child--it was called HS and college days. I know for a fact that I had more in HS than Roissey did in college and more in college than he got in the bars. Some where in his archives is a running exchange between us which includes pictures of me and also my father.
That exchange was when he was clued in to what a real alpha male does when he grows up--i.e. leaves college. He stops picking up the sluts and swapping biological ooze with however many men and gets himself a stable--of four to six women that he rotates on a daily basis. I confess to getting the whole idea from a 60's movie titled "Our Man Flint" which is hysterical, but also cool. That and playboy. Point being, that women love to compete for a man that is desirable--and no man is as desirable as one who already has women.
You guys only think women have changed--they haven't. What's changed is how many "men" are really little boys in shitty clothing. You all look exactly the same. No class, no style, nothing but your ever present cell phone--texting away to look important. I guarantee you that if the two of us are in a bar populated by late 20's, early 30's women, I will get the attention, not you. And what's more is, I won't even have to get up and go to them. They will come to me. Because I look and act like a man, not some lame pussy trying to cop a pose. My daughter, 20 years old, laughs about it. My wife just accepts it.
I actually feel sorry for younger women--you guys are pathetic. Especially the lame brained idiots who play fantasy football and the rest of that retarded sports crap. who fucking cares who won what game--unless you're a gambler.
There were guys just like you boys 30 years ago in college--saying and agreeing with whatever lame thing a girl came up with with hopes of getting laid. I just laughed at them--still do. Women are cute and say nice things--but the very notion they can survive without men is simply laughable. Of course to know that, you first have to live it. Sitting around with one finger up your ass and the other on a game console is not living it--and neither is being a dime store cowboy on Friday night in a bar trying desperately to get laid.
All people want that most what they cannot have. Powerful piece of reality to have at your disposal.
FB--last comment.
No one wants a good looking, highly educated, genteel woman with more money than the average person can ever hope to make in a lifetime?
Dream on. Delusion is wonderful, ain't it?
Dream on. Delusion is wonderful, ain't it?
You would know, Bobby.
"I did all of that as a child--it was called HS and college days. I know for a fact that I had more in HS than Roissey did in college and more in college than he got in the bars. Some where in his archives is a running exchange between us which includes pictures of me and also my father. "
There's a picture of you and your father on Roissy's blog?
What are you babbling about?
"He stops picking up the sluts and swapping biological ooze with however many men and gets himself a stable--of four to six women that he rotates on a daily basis."
And now you're just talking out of your ass. The same 4-6 women a week? So you just see them once per week? Unless the girls you are banging are completely desperate, fat ugly cunts with no options, there's no way they'd ALL put up with being a booty call for some dude once a week. It doesn't matter how attractive he is, mass groups of woman will not suffer that indignity for more than a month.
On the other hand, you might get a loyal fuck-buddy who keeps up with you while you game some more girls on the side, but to keep the same "stable" of 4-6 girls week after week? Not unless you are rich or incredibly famous.
In which case, if you are that attractive, why settle for the same group of girls week after week?
Ergo, you're completely full of shit. You have zero experience with being desirable towards women. Making shit up about women doesn't make you alpha.
"They will come to me. Because I look and act like a man, not some lame pussy trying to cop a pose."
You're so stupid. All that would happen is for you to attract (if you are who you claim) women that are completely different from the types of women I attract.
I'd pull girls who are under 24, generally, like your daughter. Meanwhile, you'd pull the divorced women or cheating housewives over 35. You can keep them.
And if you went to a club of my choosing, where dancing gets a man laid, you'd fail so miserably I'd feel terrible just for inviting you. You'll just go home after an hour to cuddle with your wife. I'd probably try and hook you up with some woman because of your nerve racking approach anxiety would keep you from ever talking to anyone.
"I actually feel sorry for younger women--you guys are pathetic. Especially the lame brained idiots who play fantasy football and the rest of that retarded sports crap. who fucking cares who won what game--unless you're a gambler."
Yawn, attacking men for being losers.
Tell me, how many guys has your daughter fucked? I'm willing to bet my soul she's not a virgin.
She went to college, right out of your sight, and fucked a good number of loser boys. And enjoyed it.
Could you ask her on my behalf if she likes anal?
Please tell me Bobby's just running one huge trolling operation for the lulz. It would be very sad if he wasn't.
RobertB: "I did all of that as a child--it was called HS and college days. I know for a fact that I had more in HS than Roissey did in college and more in college than he got in the bars. Some where in his archives is a running exchange between us which includes pictures of me and also my father.
That exchange was when he was clued in to what a real alpha male does when he grows up--i.e. leaves college. He stops picking up the sluts and swapping biological ooze with however many men and gets himself a stable--of four to six women that he rotates on a daily basis."
This is hardly what I would call conservative. Looks like you're no different from the PUAs you claim to despise.
Re: Bobby-B
I'm pretty sure you're allowed to (a.) judge men by their shoes or (b.) model your life after cheesy 60's Bond parodies but not both.
As someone else said, if Bobby-B isn't trolling, he's a sad, sad man.
I don't read travel blogs I lived one. I'm now in Korea with my own business before that I was in Bangkok and before that Malaysia.
I'm now married to an educated, attractive Korean woman. Can she be a bitch, sure she's human.
I left America for the adventure when I returned I saw that people like me (middle class, white, middle aged males) were only needed for their tax contribution to the blacks and browns. Fuck that spent two years back in the States I didn't like it my wife didn't like it so we picked up and left.
I'm now back in Korea working on my business and things look bright. I hope in a few years we can retire somewhere in the sun maybe Ecuador I really enjoyed Cuenca.
Point is I love my country I'm proud to be American but things need to change ASAP or we and the rest of the World will be in the shit.
@RobertB
"who fucking cares who won what game--unless you're a gambler."
My grandfather always wants to bet with my husband and some other male family members on sports games. He prefers to bet against our hometown teams, since if they win he's happy, if they lose at least he makes money.
Do men bet on games anymore?
@Samseau
"where dancing gets a man laid"
Is there something you're not telling us?
Well RobertB, I'm not a putative patrician so I can get away with a periodic "shot festival." If a decomissioned artillery officer named Solzhenitsyn were sitting in a Moscow flat rather than in a labor camp, he too, presumably would have indulged in the guilty pleasure of vodka and a few close friends. So I'm in good company. Please forgive this extreme metaphor.
Now, if I were a pedigreed Optimate, perhaps, unlike you and your antecedents, I'd not have let a handful of vagabond intellectuals and a gangster Irish-Boston family steal my country from me.
Did y'all even try to counter the Left's extralegal moves with competent ones of your own?
I like Robert's comment, even if he is a bit of a goofball. Anyway, us WASPs know everyone wants to be like us, whether they admit it, or not.
Did y'all even try to counter the Left's extralegal moves with competent ones of your own?
No, but you are still required to work hard to undo the damage caused by their gross neglect and then go back to your servile, submissive place, peasant. Or else Bobby will sneer at you. Shudder.
"then go back to your servile, submissive place, peasant."
It's nice to be a victim, then you have someone else to blame for your failures. WASPs never were the victims, so we never developed that mentality, largely to our own detriment it seems.
Oh, what a giveaway, Lara.
Lara, one of the greatest rock songs ever is a ballad of a particular kind of WASP vicimhood: The Band's "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down."
And as long as RobertB stays in character, I will continue to blame his class for its failure of leadership.
PA said...
Lara, one of the greatest rock songs ever is a ballad of a particular kind of WASP vicimhood: The Band's "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down."
If that Unamused fellow were a little older, there would already be a rendition of "Up On SWPL Creek".
PA: And as long as RobertB stays in character, I will continue to blame his class for its failure of leadership.
I'm no fan of Mad Men, but there's a case to be made for the "Playboy Man" Philosophy first promulgated in the late 50s-early 60s as having seriously undermined the WASP man's self-concept. Derbyshire wasn't joking when he wrote that Hef was the most important philosopher of the 20th Century.
ADS—
I think Roissy's theory of the Four Sirens of the Apocalypse is at least in spirit correct, and a decent society is simply impossible when there's a high degree of independence for women and lack of legal and social pressure for monogamy. As far as I can tell there's absolutely nothing an individual can do about this, and the powers that be aim to make it worse
There is something you can do about it. If beta or greater beta learn enough game so that like lesser alphas and alphas you can enjoy the slut carousel (with quit a few fairly good girls just beginning that journey who may fall in love with you and have a LTR with you for awhile) in your 20s and early 30’s.
Then marry a 10 years younger girl if you want kids and are middle class on up, who hasn’t slutted it up and so is able to fall genuinely in love with you. First live with. Then as she starts subtly or not so subtly asking you about marriage (“where do you see this going”) after a while say you could never get married in America’s divorce climate and laws today, you know too much about it. Then tell her you’d only marry a girl you love (as you love x) who signed a prenup that mimicked living together in the event of divorce, except with respect to child support and custody. (It’s not really any different than living together on that if you had kids while doing that, but she’ll feel better.) This will be much easier to sell if you propose while living together. You also need to read up on why what happens otherwise in divorce is so often so unfair to men.
Here’s what I’m talking about for a prenup in more detail, in parts 2 and 3 of this:
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2011/12/15/relationshipstrategies/the-grim-beeper/comment-page-7/#comment-83543
Camlost said...
South America? No thanks.
We've got enough short, squat, big butt, dusky Mestizo chicks migrating here to the US already... and it's not helping the gene pool in the looks category.
South America is way different than Central America. The Amerinds part of the blend is way more lithe. Large percentages of Colombia and Venezuelan are hot, in addition to very light skinned / white Brazilian ones, by all reports. Well Venezuela’s gone a bit dicey for Americans probably but Colombia’s gone all peaceful and shiz. Forget Equador, Peru, etc.
Eastern Europe x Russia is a happy hunting ground by all reports, well maybe St. Petersburg too. Moscow’s gone super expensive anywhere near it’s hot girls core. If you’re into Asians American with any game are big pullers in Japan and S. Korea, China too. Also Thailand and Philippines.
What guys are looking for are places with lots of hot chicks who tend to like American guys and aren’t very feminism indoctrinated and not too expense. Well Japan is expensive.
Ferdinand--
Here's a sampling from the list:
Ludwig van Beethoven
Johannes Brahms
Giacomo Casanova
Frederic Chopin
Nicolaus Copernicus
Eugène Delacroix
Rene Descartes
Gustave Flaubert
Galileo Galilei
Edward Gibbon
Vincent van Gogh
All bachelors.
Add Sir Isac Newton to the list, perhaps the greatest scientist of all time.
The main thing I’ve got against America are unfair to men feminist divorce laws and family court, to some extent other feminist laws like hair trigger and guilty until proven innocent VAWA, and hair trigger sexual harassment law to some extent. Also to many fat women and excessively feminism entitled girls (though school, mass entertainment media, and often feminist mothers), a good percentage of them.
A lot of times part of what SWPL women love about traveling whenthey do it with a girlfriend or more rarely by themselves is an opportunity to have short flings or ONS's without that getting back to potential husbands in their social circle.
Newton was an eccentric virgin - not quite what people have in mind when they think of a consummate bachelor.
nydwracu said...
I can't say with any certainty yet, but I'd guess there are a few countries in the developed world capable of resisting the immigration/multiculturalism trend, which is by far the most dangerous one out there today.
All the East Asian countries resist mass immigration or obligate multiculturalism. They’re influenced by American culture but only to the extent they want to be. There’s no guilt tripping about it. In fact the only countries in the world that allow mass immigration into becoming citizens eventually that most of their populations don’t want, are white, i.e. Euro descended nations. And they just about all do, except the formerly communist countries of Eastern Europe, which ironically don’t -- since it’s cultural Maxism which shames white/Euros into allow mass immigration from third world non white countries, and then being multicultural about it.
About 50% of UAE’s population is S. Asians but the natives want them in, pay them low wages, and never let them become citizens. Citizenship has tons of bennies there.
Lord RobertB von Snickertwit:
Grow the fuck up, you sound like a complete idiot. A shrink would do you some good. My guess is, is you had absentee parents that dumped you off at the daycare every day.
A little testy are we? It would seem that I've gotten under your skin.
Judging from the reaction of the other commenters here, I'm not the only one who thinks you're a pompous twat, so I'm not going to waste any more time on you, aside from highlighting this:
You guys only think women have changed--they haven't. What's changed is how many "men" are really little boys in shitty clothing. You all look exactly the same. No class, no style, nothing but your ever present cell phone--texting away to look important. I guarantee you that if the two of us are in a bar populated by late 20's, early 30's women, I will get the attention, not you. And what's more is, I won't even have to get up and go to them. They will come to me. Because I look and act like a man, not some lame pussy trying to cop a pose. My daughter, 20 years old, laughs about it. My wife just accepts it.
You are no different from a feminist - you parrot their lies word for word. Blaming men for everything, never once calling out the fairer sex for their many detailed crimes. Persisting in your delusion that a woman's career or credentials has anything more than a tertiary role at BEST in determining whether or not men find her attractive. You even believe the laughable falsehood that late 20's/early 30's women are the most desirable, when any red-blooded guy will take a teenager or an early twentysomething over them any day of the week.
All big words from a guy part of the social class responsible for ruining America, as PA pointed out. Even as your world is gradually consumed by the poison of liberalism, you can't break out of your faux-Tory condescension, talking to everyone like they're your illegal Mexican housekeeper.
I spit on you and your "high-class" brethren. You are part of the cancer destroying this country, and your inevitable extinction will be justice served. Your blustering here won't change a thing.
Have fun clinging to your fantasies.
P.S. My mother was a homemaker, and my parents have been contentedly married for more than thirty years. And again, since you have no reading comprehension, only a minority of women I've ever been with, I met in bars. You'll react to this the way your kind always does - silence. After all, according to you, the only quality women in the world are overindulged heiresses who graduate from worthless degree mills like Bryn Mawr, and who have shoe brands memorized but can't cook anything more complicated than Hot Pockets.
Laughable, man!
Doug1:
Add Sir Isac Newton to the list, perhaps the greatest scientist of all time.
He is on the list. I only pasted a small portion because it was too long.
I'm skeptical of the whole "great men are bachelors" argument for not marrying. It seems more plausible to me that the argument is backward. Great men are bachelors because they are passionate about their intellectual/artistic pursuits and devote their time to them to the expense of women and family. In other words, if you have the spark of genius in you, you'll be a bachelor naturally. If you don't have that spark, rejecting marriage won't help you find it. I'm doubtful that it's feminism that is holding back FerBard or his comment base from becoming literary giants. The argument also reeks of feminism. It's simply the male version of the argument that we need to remake society because somewhere, in some remote corner of the country, there is a women who can't become an astrophysicist due to her gender.
Add Sir Isac Newton to the list, perhaps the greatest scientist of all time.
As IHTG pointed out, I wouldn't include Newton on that type of list.
He wasn't just "eccentric", he was very likely borderline insane in the same way Bobby Fischer was. He was assuredly autistic and had horrible OCD (these two generally go together). And if I'm not mistaken, he actually spent more time on alchemy than on actual physics. And yes, he did die a virgin.
All in all, he was a fascinating man though.
Eastern Europe x Russia is a happy hunting ground by all reports, well maybe St. Petersburg too.
About ten years ago on MTV, there was a True Life special on American men who go to Russia looking for brides. IIRC, this has gained some momentum in recent years.
Travel when you're young is not a bad thing. I did a lot of it in my own 20s, including living overseas for a few years as a professional. Made me like the US much more than I did beforehand, really, but was a useful experience at the time. I no longer have wanderlust, and really don't like travel very much anymore (have to do some for work purposes), but at that age it was fun. Of course, I wasn't doing it to be rid of the US, which is a key difference, perhaps. In my experience you're not really "rid of the US" unless and until you go deeply native (and not just superficially so like you see some expats doing in six months or so) -- otherwise, you're an American expat, and most locals will view you that way, even if you speak fluently and know the culture/history well and so on.
The other interesting thing about this thread is what a complete jackass RobertB seems to be. Wow.
"You've barely lived life and yet you're adopting the pose of a grizzled veteran of the culture wars."
I don't fully sign-on to this screed, but there is some merit to its point. I think technology can sneak up on the young generation and steal a bit of their real-life experience; it's understandable that real young, bright adults could be just the type to get too theoretical and not-enough experiential about 'living' in the here-and-now.
The techno cave can be warm and reassuring ------ but you just gotta get out and taste the real thing most of the time. I'm glad I'm not in my 20s now, as I would be a prime candidate for spending WAY too much time living life via social media. (bad enough as it is).
This is all very strange.
I've never known any patrician/blue blood types to have to resort to meeting women in bars. Part of being upper crust is not having to stoop to that level - you're already patched in to the network for meeting everyone who is anyone. Bars are vulgar places for the hoi polloi.
And if you are having to meet women in bars on a regular basis it means you're exerting that effort because you're not meeting them elsewhere. A true player should have women already lined up in the "batter's box" and should be able to move to the next one with ease, rather than having to get out there to set up lines and troll for his catch like a fisherman.
PA,
That is a good song. Southerners suffered badly during and after the Civil War, not that they get any sympathy for it.
Well, OneSTDV, since you ask. Your bias will guide your feet. Guess what guided the folk you criticize.
"The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" is a great anthem celebrating Anglo-Saxon Protestant victimization, but leave it to the WASP to have his victimization imported:
(via wikipedia.duh)
"The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" is a song written by Canadian musician Robbie Robertson... (born Jaime Royal Robertson, July 5, 1943)...Robertson was born in Toronto, Ontario, Canada to a Jewish father and a Mohawk mother. He had his earliest exposure to music at Six Nations of the Grand River First Nation, where he spent summers with his mother's family.
Robertson claimed that he had the music to the song in his head but had no idea what it was to be about: "At some point [the concept] blurted out to me. Then I went and I did some research and I wrote the lyrics to the song." Robertson continued:
When I first went down South, I remember that a quite common expression would be, "Well don't worry, the South's gonna rise again." At one point when I heard it I thought it was kind of a funny statement and then I heard it another time and I was really touched by it. I thought, "God, because I keep hearing this, there's pain here, there is a sadness here." In Americana land, it's a kind of a beautiful sadness.
***
Hey, to bring this back, there's surely a beautiful sadness in the lives of the young male ex-pat bloggers, and they too shall have their anthem...
FREE BIRD!
beta white-knighters of the world Unite!!! at onestdv's blog. Same as it ever was.
G.L.Piggy said...
I appreciate the guys like Roosh and Frost who travel the world and live a relatively adventurous lifestyle.
You'd fixate on more important issues if you eased-off on the vicarious hero stuff, quit masturbating daily - and more importantly, quit psychoanalyzing yourself on why you bate so much.
OneSTDV said:
The "Man"-osphere includes men who have decided to travel abroad as a means of escaping quarterlife crisis.
I'd choose American travel as (still) the most beneficial to individual learning.
But, the "Travo-Sphere" predictably reveals its typical anti-American slant inherent in all chic, contemporary, literary endeavors; it's genetic.
Roosh wrote (I paraphrase)that "when his looks go, he'll be a happy 60 year-old codger happily waving money at teenage Brazilian whores" to fuck.
I cannot believe that such an incisive mind (no sarcasm)is relegated to mere enfeebled satyrdom as the sum legacy of western intelligence. Fucking a variety of girls is great, but it's not the pinnacle of achievement.
I wanted to post it there, but, he'd get mad and call me "a dick" lol.
All this talk about shaming guys who travel for pussy or for cadding around makes me want to laugh and cry.
Somehow, once again, it's a crime to be male and engage male instincts, but not a crime to be female or engage female instincts. Somehow, men are supposed to Rise to the Occasion and Good Men are those who Man Up and are the Responsible Ones. Why not equally shame women who status whore and practice serial-monogamy Slut adventurism? It makes me sick. It makes me more sick that men, like OneSTDV, could go along with this female shaming charade.
On top of this, the criticism of Roosh and PUAs has the barely concealed contempt for men who "can't make it at home" and go abroad for women. How often does this old canard have to get trotted out? It's muted here because Roosh is clearly successful in his appointed activity; but the foul odor is still present.
Whatever: Our loyalties are things to be bought and sold, whether we like it or not, and this is always the case. If you think yours aren't on the market every minute of every day, you're fooling yourself. For example, who the hell could be loyal to a state that has done what it did to Southern California? You need to be nearly deaf, dumb and blind to see that loyalty to such a state is self-annihilation.
Anything short of open rebellion is almost pathetically unpatriotic.
Frankly, I have no interest in a society that has no interest in me. It must always work both ways. I owe no more than I am repaid by society. A lot of men feel this way. As it happens, I will likely marry and breed, though on my own terms this time. But this is how I write the script: On my own terms. For this should I or any man be punished?
Roosh and players make their own terms. They're no more irresponsible than anyone else: If the women want to play, I don't hear you people blaming the women, do I?
As always, the men are to blame, not the gormless, largely hormone-led women. Just the men. Are the women not rational, responsible actors? At best, Roosh is merely responding to female behavior.
I've expatted a number of times on two continents. You don't need to be an arrogant American ass to get foreign girls; and foreign girls remarkably always turn out to be... girls. As in, human females, much the same as the ones at home. This was hugely true in Asia. In fact, hapless American losers who tried to make their way in Asia generally got eaten alive.
My sister plays this game with me all the time: Responsible woman married two kids versus man-boy. Her speech is tinged with contempt and bitterness, but underneath this is a ringing tone of self-righteous Victory-ism. It's odd to hear exactly the same tone coming through in blog comments.
As if Roosh owes so much as a dime of social sacrifice to anyone, or as if anyone else who (for usually deeply selfish reasons) sacrifices is worth more.
I challenge you to find some self-appointed arbiter of Social Goodness who isn't simply engaging in rationalization for the choices he or she has made. Oddly, the choices they made almost always turn out to be the "socially most appropriate" choices.
Think about it: how do you want to live? Debate this for a while.
If you're trapped in the US, admit that you're resigned to it and stop trying to sell everyone a myth that you're a noble beast for putting social welfare above your dick.
Women: Shaming language unwelcome. Expatting men, of whom I know many, are far from the "losers" you think they are, and are almost always civic-minded men who are doing what they do only because they can. And they are infinitely better off the moment they touch down anywhere else, and no amount of tsk-tsking from you will change this bald, naked truth.
Women pursue naked self-interest and are lauded for doing so. As it happens, their personal self-interest tends to coincide with some of the social norms we admire.
Male self-interest is highly stigmatized and shame is the tool used to control men. This is the classic gossip / rumor mill around the water cooler, with the bickering ladies / australopithecines/ monkeys hooting and hollering.
Smart guys realize this is almost always geared against them: a nexus of rationalizing men buying into this system of social control and women hooting and hollering and pretending to be interested in social well-being when what they're most interested in is self-interest and masking it as social consciousness. The men who go along with them are gutless wonders with too much invested in these manipulative shrews to be able to say anything.
No matter how you calculate it, the criticism always comes down to: What will most impressively increase the sexual market value or social approval of the women making the criticism? What will best validate their personal life choices? This is the be-all and end-all of almost all female shaming of men.
There is no shame nor is there irresponbility in going abroad or even being sexually promiscuous or cadding about. Good for those who do it. Those who don't are almost always those who can't or won't.
Incidentally, I will likely marry a good-old American passport holder. But the hundreds of Americans I know who don't are actually generally much more impressive, more educated, more talented and more socially responsible than the average American at home.
I've known a prostitute, a shockingly large number of married women fooling around on their husbands with glee, women casting judgment on everything differing from them in any way, and monsters in female clothing ready to hang men from a flagpole.
What differentiated these women?
Of them all, the prostitute was the most honest, and easily the most trustworthy and genuine character. She understood the nature of reality instinctively and never once, not once cheated or lied to me. She may have had a mercenary streak, but she never hid it for a moment.
The monsters were the socially acceptable women trying to shame everyone else into behaving in a particular fashion. They were the most vocally socially-conscious and they were by far and away the most narcissistic, rationalizing calculating and selfish women I've ever known. Normal, middle-class American women who thought they were the pinnacle of social rectitude and responsible in every way, they were usually the first to back down on a principle and leave their values at the door when it came time to actually make an important decision.
Nowhere else is a greater collection of self-aggrandizing, self-appointed judges more hypocritically justifying their own choices in life by ridiculing or shaming others for having the audacity to have different goals, dreams, aspirations or ambitions.
I learned long ago what Roosh likely already knows: The only appropriate attitude to have towards such social bigots and hypocrites is this:
Fuck off, you sanctimonious self-serving self-righteous disingenuous hypocrites. Society will both survive and survive in spite of you.
When you get the moral authority to say boo to anyone, you'll be informed.
Why not equally shame women who status whore and practice serial-monogamy Slut adventurism?
You present a classic strawman whenever someone criticizes men (just like the feminists who can't handle even the tiniest bit of criticism of women).
I've written plenty of posts criticizing the "Sex and the City" generation. And I've defended men from unfair criticism as well:
http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2011/02/feminists-caused-lack-of-good-men.html
Thankyou
the information is very useful
i will keep updated with your blog
luxury train
OneSTDV said...
You [gorby] present a classic strawman whenever someone criticizes men...
BUT...whenever gorby fabricates a Strawman...
HIS strawman weighs 4895 pounds,
is 76 ft tall
and takes 360 hours to build...
whats wrong with huge asses, u gay?
American women do more to bring down America than nonwhites or immigrants do. A shame we couldn't confine US citizenship only to men and deport all of our women, and replace them with women from South America.
"When you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there." -- Lewis Carroll
Post a Comment