Big black football player at age seventeen gets drunk at a party and has sex with an uber-slut girl who claims to be sixteen. That same night, she also has sex with another football player and a 27 year-old man. Turns out, she was a few months shy of thirteen years-old. He loses his scholarship to play at Texas, but still gets admitted to Oklahoma State. While at OK State, he pleads guilty to the charges and subsequently gets kicked off the team after two promising seasons.The kid made a mistake, but how was he to know that she wasn't even thirteen? Sometimes a justified Big Law and Order system reaches too far in order to engage in moral posturing. And sometimes that same system which keeps us safe ruins lives, as is the case for Mr. Collins. He caught on with another football program at Texas Southern, but then got careless with the terms of his probation. For example:
He blew off his weekly sex offender class, and when he did show up he "exhibited a narcissistic attitude and failed to take the program seriously," according to a probation report.Yes, he should have done everything necessary for his probation, but come on. The guy didn't really commit a crime in the first place and now he sits in jail for smoking pot, drinking beer, looking at personal porn pics, and skipping a few unnecessary meetings. The guy is clearly benign, with absolutely no history of dysfunctional or violent behavior. And he will sit in jail as a prisoner for the next couple of years.
In April 2009 Collins failed a drug test for marijuana, violating his probation. He was sentenced to 30 days in county jail. After his release, his probation officer discovered nude photos of Collins and his 20-year-old girlfriend on his cellphone -- a violation of the order that he avoid all material portraying "nudity of a child or adult."
Six weeks into his employment at Pilgrims Pride, Collins skipped three straight days of work without calling in and was terminated. He didn't tell his P.O. about it, which was another probation violation. He also failed, for the umpteenth time, to show up and pay for a state-administered lie detector test. Collins tried to explain during a recent phone interview. "I got two kids," he said. "I don't have $200 to give someone to give me a polygraph test. I don't have that money to waste."
In April 2011, Collins admitted to drinking a beer on two occasions. (Collins is barred from drinking alcohol.)
That day, police responded to a domestic dispute call from Collins' girlfriend, who they found alone and bearing no evidence of injury or an altercation...The police were already going to take Collins in for an outstanding traffic citation, but tossing the phone earned him a disorderly conduct charge..
I'm a huge proponent of the Prison Industrial Complex, but sometimes the law overreaches. I guess this is what Sam Francis deemed the "tyranny" aspect of "anarcho-tyranny." Should we then reconsider our stance on harshly punishing criminals? I still don't think so, as no system can work perfectly nor should the absence of perfection justify dismantling a particular institution. We can however note when government, in this case overweening district attorneys who will make work for themselves no matter what, oversteps boundaries.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarification: Let me be clear: I think it's abhorrent that he had sex with a 12 year-old. I assuredly do not want 12 year-olds having sex, period. But there are a small portion of 12/13 year-old girls, especially with puberty starting so early these days, that legitimately look like they are in their late teens. If a girl who has a fully developed body and exudes sexual confidence tells a man she is sixteen, then he has no reason not to believe her. I just don't see how you can punish someone for believing a very believable lie.
100 comments:
Are you opposed to the entire concept of statutory rape? Because the whole point of it is to prevent 12-year-old girls from having sex with older guys, even if the 12 year old consents. Consent, for those aware of the law, includes saying the magic words "I'm 16."
Seriously, come on 1. Why would anyone be asking or telling their age except that it was obvious to everyone that they were too young? And why would you trust an obviously fucked up white girl who lied about her age to get nigangbanged to tell the truth about anything at trial?
Funny how this sort of thing rarely happens to college baseball or soccer players.
"Chris Collins is as black as midnight," said a white juror. "I'm a big ol' redneck white guy. I came in there thinking, 'He's guilty, we should hang him.' I left there thinking he got a raw deal."
The guy didn't really commit a crime in the first place
Really, he did. Maybe you meant to say "Statutory rape laws are dumb and should be scrapped"? But he clearly did commit a crime.
Ha, nice try but zero sympathy for a black guy who fucked an 11-12 year old white girl. Collins is going to come out a hero and probably get a tenured job as a professional black victim, on our dime. In addition to a nice fat settlement for wrongful imprisonment some years down the road, also on our dime. Doubt he even had a very bad time in prison. Bad relative to college football player of course but not compared to typical black living conditions...
And you people wonder why People of Color do not trust white folks.
This is the new JIm Crow. If a white guy had done what Mr. Collins did plus 100 more he would have walked and people would have said "give him another chance"
I find it amazing the lenghts white girls will go to get down with black men.
"This is the new JIm Crow. If a white guy had done what Mr. Collins did plus 100 more he would have walked and people would have said "give him another chance""
Are you joking? That would have been a national story. Sharpton et al. would be all over that.
This is the new JIm Crow. If a white guy had done what Mr. Collins did plus 100 more he would have walked and people would have said "give him another chance
Dude! Get with the times. White guys are in prison for doing less than their Person of Color cohorts. Gotta reduce that disparate impact.
Actually in many states the state has to prove that the adult knew the minor was not of legal age. Not every state has strict liability on this issue.
Why don't they punish the little slut too?
Failing to punish the girls who are involved in underage sex is like failing to punish the dealer in a drug transaction.
If you actually want to stop underage sex, you would punish the girls who are doing it. If it was THEIR ass on the line for jail time, "statutory rape" would end overnight, and thats a fact, jack.
white folks don’t have a real understanding of racism beyond using racial slurs and segregation. We don’t see how racism undergirds the very being of this nation and that it is intertwined throughout the fabric of our society. We don’t understand the invisible nature of it because we are not negatively impacted by it. We believe in the merit system because We have no reason to believe otherwise.
We white people should be required to take a class on white privilege in high school and college as part of our curriculum.
Lot's of fakers on this thread.
@OneSTDV,
I'm telling you man; keep playing like this and your rep will be gone in no time.
Most of your commenters don't want to hear any contradictions or qualifications when it comes to 'sticking it to those Evil Woogies.' Especially in this instance; the fact that he had sex with a white female is probably enough to consign him to the ninth ring among most here ---- I mean, surely the girl/woman was either tricked or unwilling, as no females would truly willfully do such a thing, right? :)
Some Anonymous douche bag said:
"white folks don’t have a real understanding of racism beyond using racial slurs and segregation. We don’t see how racism undergirds the very being of this nation and that it is intertwined throughout the fabric of our society. We don’t understand the invisible nature of it because we are not negatively impacted by it. We believe in the merit system because We have no reason to believe otherwise.
We white people should be required to take a class on white privilege in high school and college as part of our curriculum."
Do you really believe this (meaning that you are some young programmed idiot) or are you just stupid? Institutional racism exists because a certain race created this country. There is "institutional racism" in Japan, China, Saudi Arabia, etc., etc. It is reality. The laws and mores that a country operates under is an expression of the genetic nature of the creators of the country. Just because some primitive nigs have difficulty operating under these conditions is their problem, not the people that created the rules. I think, if you had an IQ above a negro's or any trace of intellectual honesty, you should be able to admit that nigs can't function ANYWHERE with success. And yet, thanks to morons like you, we are supposed to change the rules that exist just so we won't hurt their poor little feelings.
I have a better idea. Let’s give them Georgia and Michigan, move all the White people out of those states and see how nigs do….WITHOUT institutional racism TM. Do you actually thing there are any jigs that want to be removed from the presence of White people? Not likely, since that gets rid of the excuses for their primitive behavior and the gravy train that a higher race can provide for them to leech off of.
I mean, surely the girl/woman was either tricked or unwilling, as no females would truly willfully do such a thing, right?
You're being uncharacteristically slow today. Her being willing or unwilling is completely irrelevant. As a twelve year-old she lacks the legal capacity to give her consent. What part of this is unclear to you?
If you actually want to stop underage sex, you would punish the girls who are doing it.
Not just the girls! What about those sneaky boys who tricked poor Jerry Sandusky? Don't they deserve jail time?
Yes, I'm being sarcastic. But some of you lot need a clue-bat upside the heads, preferably four times a day every day of your lives.
Okay, maybe a more clever person could have done the same things and not gotten in trouble.
But morally the way he behaved was basically terrible. He violated a hundred moral rules along the way. Plenty of lust, pride and sloth. He's got a couple of unprovided-for, out-of-wedlock kids already and he's still very young.
Leftists want to get rid of social notions of right and wrong, but they are definitely hurting people like this who need to be surrounded by moral bounds.
I'm not sure whether to be proud of you for looking beyond race on this issue....or disturbed you think it is okay to screw 12 year olds
"Her being willing or unwilling is completely irrelevant."
I've proved once again that saracasm translates poorly into blog commentary ------ even tho I put a little ":)" wink at the end of my remark.
My intention was to point out and gently rib the rarity of OneSTDV extending sympathy to a NAM engaging in interracial sex.
Seriously, the part of the narrative to this story that I don't get is: how can a 12-year-old be so convincing of being of consent age that everyone from the national magazine with a public profile to protect to the self-described 'white-redneck' juror who also wound up sympathizing with the miscegenating ball player.
She must've been a real Jezebel to cause such an unlikely alignment of sympathizers.
Too bad she's still a minor; i'd be curious to see a pic of this 'girl'.
Are you opposed to the entire concept of statutory rape? Because the whole point of it is to prevent 12-year-old girls from having sex with older guys, even if the 12 year old consents. Consent, for those aware of the law, includes saying the magic words "I'm 16."
disturbed you think it is okay to screw 12 year olds
Let me be clear: I think it's abhorrent that he had sex with a 12 year-old. I assuredly do not want 12 year-olds having sex. The girl is also clearly messed in the head.
But there are 12/13 year-olds, especially with puberty starting so early these days, that legitimately look like they are in their late teens. If a girl who has a fully developed body and exudes sexual confidence tells a man she is 16, then he has no reason not to believe her. I just don't see how you can punish someone for believing a very believable lie.
Of course, I also don't know how to fix this problem, but I know that punishing guys like him just doesn't feel right.
He violated a hundred moral rules along the way. Plenty of lust, pride and sloth. He's got a couple of unprovided-for, out-of-wedlock kids already and he's still very young.
Of course, but none of that means he deserves to sit in prison.
I'm telling you man; keep playing like this and your rep will be gone in no time.
See the quote Daybreaker provides from one of the jurors:
"Chris Collins is as black as midnight," said a white juror. "I'm a big ol' redneck white guy. I came in there thinking, 'He's guilty, we should hang him.' I left there thinking he got a raw deal."
It's always best to avoid any contact with the police or the justice system as it's an uncaring bureaucracy that can suck you in and leave you bankrupt and damaged. There's probably an entire army of people who have gotten shafted in one way or another. That being the case, why always the pity party for a black when there's plenty of others to pick from? Playing football makes him a more worthy victim than anyone else? A football player is a terrible thing to waste? Was he a real student or just there to play ball?
Not much sympathy for the former 12 yr old out there; she's pretty much been consigned to the trash bin. The spotlight is entirely on him. The behavior was of course execrable but I really wonder what's wrong with this picture when a child of 12 is going out to group sex parties. What is going on at home? Children don't have very good judgement and booze doesn't improve it. This kid might need some help as things like this imply greater issues, presently as well as in the future. Also, what about the 28 yr old guy in the story? No further mention of him. He rented the place, set things up and participated in it himself. He's obviously a predator, why wasn't he charged?
The story brings up a lot of different issues that could be discussed apart from the one of victimology preferred by SI.
The strangest thing about "statutory rape" is that a teenage girl can somehow consent to sex with a boy her age, but not with an adult. I just don't understand how that's supposed to work. If the issue is that she isn't old enough to make that kind of decision, the age of her partner should be irrelevant.
Mike is wrong. In some states, reasonable mistake about a girl's age is a defense, and in some it's not. So, e.g., in 1980 in Nevada when I had a girlfriend who had graduated high school two years early, I was committing a felony, because at that time the statute was "strict liability" with no defense for mistake. They have since moved to the California model, with reasonable mistake being a defense. Prosecutors are both advocates and political actors - so they go for as much yardage (so to speak) as they can get. The criticism here should be reserved for the judge who imposed the ridiculous probation conditions. Assuming the claim of mistake was not transparently phony, why the need to register as a "sex offender"? Why the conditions porn? Totally ridiculous. As you all know, I'm as revolted by black culture as anyone, but c'mon. This series of events has just ensured the rest of us are going to be paying for this guy in various ways forever.
You can't really blame the girl in this cae.
From the time women (and especially white women) reach sexual cognizance they lust after the best men. Black men are the best men seeing as how they have big lovesticks, ripped muscular bodies, battle prowess, dancing skills, confidence, swagger, smooth skin, soft hair, hairless bodies, great child rearing/father skills, and the soul of Africa in their veins.
Sounds like the kind of guy who would've ended up in the prison industrial complex anyway. He opened up a can of worms with the kind of company he was keeping.
I'd be semi sympathetic if the girl were 14 or 15. But 12? I don't care how developed her body was, I've never seen a 12 year old girl or boy with a mature looking face. There was surely doubt in his mind concerning her age, his lust simply superseded his common sense.
"The strangest thing about "statutory rape" is that a teenage girl can somehow consent to sex with a boy her age, but not with an adult."
It's my understanding that sex acts solely between minors are still illegal in many(all?) states; it's just not a criminal matter since no adults are involved, and probably not aggressively pursued by juvenile courts, since it's technically a 'victimless' crime if the sex is consensual.
Actually, I really don't know about the legality issue. maybe someone in-the-know can weigh-in.
We white people should be required to take a class on white privilege in high school and college as part of our curriculum.
Uh, we pretty much are. What country do you live in?
If a girl who has a fully developed body and exudes sexual confidence tells a man she is 16, then he has no reason not to believe her.
If a girl tells you she's 16 you should always disbelieve her until she shows some ID. I've turned away girls whose legality was in doubt, and so has every man with a lick of sense.
Here's what the Texas Penal Code says:
The age of consent in Texas is 17 (Texas Penal Code Section 21.11). However , "...It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the actor...was not more than three years older than the victim and of the opposite sex...(and) did not use duress, force, or a threat against the victim at the time of the offence" and is not a registered sex offender Section 21.11 (b).
....
Now I see your point, this guy is more stupid than criminal, but the law is the law. The law cites an affirmative defense for an age difference of not more than three years if certain other conditions apply, but says nothing about sex with 12 year old kids being OK if they lie about their age, look "sexually mature" and "come on" to some older guy. If you want to propose an amendment to the law based on those conditions, well, we await your draft.
I once had a truck driver friend who told me that he thought that anyone who got caught speeding in a small Southern town ought to get two tickets, one for speeding and one for being stupid. If that were the case, this guy would be doing multiple life sentences. Let's just see how many "honest mistakes" our poor misunderstood victim of society made:
1. Got drunk in public at age 17
2. Had felonious sex with a twelve year old girl
3. Blew off his sex offender classes
4. Gave his PO a boatload of attitude
5. Smoked pot even though he knew he was required to stay clean and that he would be tested
6. Possessed porn in violation of his probation and then put it on his cell phone
7. Got fired for not showing up at work and then didn't tell his PO about it
8. Didn't show up for his lie detector test despite repeated warnings to do so
9. Got a traffic ticket and didn't pay it
10. Got involved in some sort of domestic dispute that resulted in a visit from the police
11. Threw a phone during the unpleasant encounter, resulting in another criminal charge
12. Drank beer in violation of his probation.
Plus he's got a couple of illegitimate kids (wonder who'll end up supporting them?)
Now I agree that this guy isn't a dangerous sex criminal. And some of the stuff he did - keep porno pictures, drink beer, smoke pot - would either be no offense at all or only a very trivial one for someone who wasn't on probation. But he WAS on probation, so he wasn't just anybody - he was a convicted sex offender. Maybe, in an ideal world, he wouldn't be, but this world is far from perfect, and the law doesn't see things that way.
Half Sigma wrote about this recently on his blog:
I think this relates back to what Dale Carson wrote in his book Arrest-Proof Yourself about why redneck whites don’t get arrested as often as blacks:
Although low on the social food chain, these characters [redneck whites] don’t have a chip on their shoulders about race. They are less likely to act out in the presence of police. Generally they can stifle the profanity during those crucial minutes and mumble “Yes, officer” and “No officer” until the heat has passed.
Thus we see a pattern emerge in which whites, more so than blacks, are able to be polite and respectful to authority figures when they need to be.
....
So Collins is not just very dumb, but he has a real attitude problem, and he's unable to connect the dots that violation of Mickey Mouse probation rules can have big time unpleasant consequences. Maybe he needs to be locked up for his own protection.
The strangest thing about "statutory rape" is that a teenage girl can somehow consent to sex with a boy her age, but not with an adult.
You have some odd ideas about statutory rape. A young boy can likewise consent to sex with someone his own age but not with an adult.
Just ask Jerry Sandusky.
^ That's exactly what I said.
Really, he did. Maybe you meant to say "Statutory rape laws are dumb and should be scrapped"? But he clearly did commit a crime.
Absolutely.
Why don't they punish the little slut too?
Failing to punish the girls who are involved in underage sex is like failing to punish the dealer in a drug transaction.
The involvement in underage sex is her punishment. What kind of freak would want to criminally punishment a rape victim?
She intentionally sought out men for the purpose of having sex with them. In what universe can that be described as rape?
Funny that I criticize Paul for not celebrating white Christian America....
He's the ONLY Christian candidate. I can see where you might want more from him, but you still get more of a "celebration of White Christian America" from him than you get from anyone else.
Your hatred of Paul is a mystery. You have to forgive Mangan's commenters for speculating about its origins, since nothing you say about him makes any sense in view of your stated principles.
How did I get that in the wrong thread? Sorry about that.
Let's just see how many "honest mistakes" our poor misunderstood victim of society made:
Yes, I wouldn't want the guy living next door, but come on. He's sitting in jail right now for having porn, kind of being an asshole, and smoking pot. If that was the standard for justifiable prison time, then 75% of the population would be in jail right now.
"We white people should be required to take a class on white privilege in high school and college as part of our curriculum.'
You're being satirical, right, anonymous?
What about the girl, you ask?
Our society through our state legislatures (you know, the law?), decides at what age someone may give consent. We have several laws that essentially say, "Nope, too young to be trusted to be making serious life-changing decisions" like drinking, driving, entering the military, being a stripper, or engaging in sexual acts.
I don't care if she was a little bitch or not. The laws exist for good reason.
I'd like to see a picture of this girl. If she's hot, maybe we'll see her doing porn in a few years.
Everyone has their exceptions. For Whoopi Goldberg, it's her co-workers: the child rapist she favored forgiving was Roman Polanski. For 1STD, it's football players.
Funny how this sort of thing rarely happens to college baseball or soccer players.
Not sure what this refers to: college basketballers don't rape children? aren't arrested and harassed? aren't in the national media?
As to soccer players: Eric Frimpong (ESPN).
He's sitting in jail right now for having porn, kind of being an asshole, and smoking pot. If that was the standard for justifiable prison time, then 75% of the population would be in jail right now.
No, he's in prison for a ton of parole violations.
He never got jail time for the statutory rape.
quick off-topic@ Camlost:
Cam,
Who do you look in the Rose Bowl tomorrow: Oregon or my Alma Mater?
(I say, though we're a bigger underdog this year, we avenge last year's loss to TCU with a victory in Pasadena-2012; final score: 53-49 Badgers.)
p.s.-
And just to keep things on topic racially, the UW-Badgers features the nation's top mulatto quarterback: Rusell Wilson! (LOL!)
Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Wisconsin.
Oregon can't tackle. Montee Ball is going to run over them.
Hey Nickrit, do you see any signs a generation from now of Mulattoes self-identifying as such, rather than black (or white)?
"I mean, surely the girl/woman was either tricked or unwilling"
Apparently she was really drunk.
Chris is big and really dumb. He doesn't seem like a mean person, just dangerous if he is given too much freedom or does too much thinking on his own.
"If a girl tells you she's 16 you should always disbelieve her until she shows some ID."
Watch the video. Chris is really dumb. It does seem like this is something even he could have figured out, though.
A number of years ago, while I was in my 40s, I mistook a 14 year old (white) for an attractive 20 year old. There was nothing improper about it -- we were just chatting, her dad was right there in the room, and my mistake became apparent as soon as I got around to asking her what college she was attending. Mildly embarrassing, but no big deal. (She said this wasn't the first time that had happened to her).
The thing is, she didn't just look like a 20 year old, she also talked like one. If we had met under other circumstances, and she had wanted to fool me, it would have been easy!
I think it is hard for a high percentage of black people to function in our civilized, complicated society. If black elites want us to recognize that, they need to swallow their pride and accept the IQ difference.
Chris is big and really dumb. He doesn't seem like a mean person, just dangerous if he is given too much freedom
This description sounds like that big black kid who beat a much younger (also black) girl to death. The defense got him a very mild sentence, convincing the court that he was just play-acting pro-wrestling moves and didn't mean to kill her.
He also had that big dumb harmless teddy-bear look to him.
After he got out of wherever they had him incarcereated for those few years, he got into trouble doing serous thing. Armed robbery of a pizza delivery guy, IIRC.
I seriously want to meet these people who can correctly identify the age of a girl just by looking at em.
If black elites want us to recognize that, they need to swallow their pride and accept the IQ difference.
Black elites needn't swallow any pride; most of them are part-white and clearly look it. Cf. my question above to Nickrit, they can stop identifying as black, instead reclaiming the Mulatto identity. Then they can tell black people that they are on their own.
If sexual-atypicals can keep adding one letter to their alliance-collective LGBT...QIA...(what's next?) then surely it stands to reason that individuals wiht one-part-each Euro and Afro blood may want to one day be different that mere mono-bloods.
Nikcrit,
You started out mostly agreeing with us on this site, and being really easy going. Now you are acting like a black activist. What changed?
I seriously want to meet these people who can correctly identify the age of a girl just by looking at em.
Impulse control could have saved the day here. You can't just stick your d** in everything that comes along.
When I was younger and wilder I did some foolish things with my friends, but it was mainly with people I knew and could trust. We weren't picking up chicks off the street.
So, when you're out screwing some drunk $2 ho you just met hanging in a weed and vodka-infested hotel room with a bunch of thugs you can expect bad things to happen. I'll bet $500 that he didn't use protection, either.
If he don't know the girl from school and didn't grow up with her, maybe he should have exercised a little caution, especially if his football career was so very important to him. But, since black males never have a father around they don't have anyone to tell them to be extra careful about hanging with the wrong crowd and putting their future in jeopardy.
P.A says,
"Hey Nickrit, do you see any signs a generation from now of Mulattoes self-identifying as such, rather than black (or white)?"
I've always been more or less agnostic re. how biracials identify, but I do think there's some misunderstanding on the issue along racial lines. Sometimes I and other biracials find it galling when whites or whomever take us for task for 'identifying as black' ----- but that, specifically, is because we're looking at the American history of race relations: how white society deemed anyone with any black blood whatsoever to be black (e.g., hypodescent AKA 'the one-drop rule'). This, after years of light-skinned blacks trying to pass and even disowning their biological families to avoid second-class citizenship; so, finally, in the '60s as part of hte Civil-Rights movement, the cultural aspect involves developing black pride (in the psycho-biological sense of developing a healthy self-regard), it finally becomes accepted in the black community to, umm, 'be black.' Great. "Black is beautiful'; 'I'm proud and I'm black!,' etc., ad infinitum.
And then a decade or two later, after a couple-hundred years of top-down culturally enforced black shame, and then a fifteen-year interval of black rejuvenation and black self-acceptance, all of the sudden we're 'black supremacists' for not acknowledging our white blood? I mean, if a guy who looked like me (about the color and build and type of a biracial like, say, a spawn of Rick Fox and Lenny Kravitz, walked around Birmingham or Atlanta in the 1950s and went into a restaurant and said: "hey, i know what you're thinking ----- but don't sweat it, I'm white too!" I don't think that would do me too much good.
So I don't find it hard to excuse the sense of gall and irony among light blacks or biracials who're chastised today for identifying as 'black.'
For the most part that's because white America never would have it any other way.
Still, many biracials in this day and age do identify as 'mixed,' going by some of the mulatto-themed blogs and message boards; I don't post on too many of those, as they're mainly used by teenagers and lean toward a pop-culture/entertainment focus.
Personally, in re. to biracials: i'm fine with those who identify as 'mixed', 'black', 'white' or other;p totally up to the individual in my book.
RE:
Lara said,
Nikcrit,
"You started out mostly agreeing with us on this site, and being really easy going. Now you are acting like a black activist. What changed?"
I don't know what you're referring to? Activist?
(My initial comment in this thread was a joking reference to the irony of OneSTDV's defending a black guy who had sex with a white 12-year-old girl.
Trust that I'm not 'hatin' on whitey' today or much any other day. (lol!)
@nikcrit
"So I don't find it hard to excuse the sense of gall and irony among light blacks or biracials who're chastised today for identifying as 'black.'
For the most part that's because white America never would have it any other way."
Maybe you should be grateful, that today white people are open minded enough to allow you to identify as white. Unless of course, you want to go down with the sinking ship that is black America.
"how white society deemed anyone with any black blood whatsoever to be black (e.g., hypodescent AKA 'the one-drop rule')."
The one-drop rule has one very specific reason behind its existence: the persistence of African hair, which unlike skin color, appears immune to dilution. When you're human, you have a certain genetically-encoded sense of what fellow-normal looks like. For whites, this includes straightish, smooth hair.
On top of it, add the fact of Euro people, regardless of skin tone along the Iceland-Persia continuum, have a kind of rosy-beige hue to their skin; again, without that, you look different. As do all dark-skinned people in our eyes.
so the one-drop rule is a way of saying that even one drop will alter a familiar appearance, into an unfamiliar one. It's there for a reason.
Lara says,
"Maybe you should be grateful, that today white people are open minded enough to allow you to identify as white. Unless of course, you want to go down with the sinking ship that is black America."
It's not a matter of gratitude or ingratitude; if I walked in to a room where you were sitting, introduced myself and then declared that I was white, you most likely would wonder what mental institution I had escaped from!
Still, to anyone who's curious enough to wonder, I always disclose the full details of my background; the only reason I reflective respond or identify myself as 'black' is because that's what the majority of people who encounter me presume; I mean, it's fairly frequent that i get the 'Are you mixed?' or 'Are you Puerto Rican?' thrown at me, but I don't find it offensive or demeaning at all, and if they're curious enough, I fill them in with the facts.
I fine with however biracials prefer to define themselves. And I don't interpret their decision as insulting toward who they leave out of that definition, because I believe their choice was probably informed by the circumstances of their personal history.
nikcrit,
I just think we've made it too fashionable to be black or any other put upon group. When we stop telling people how wonderful they are because their ancestors were poor and unsuccessful, maybe people will start changing who they want to identify with.
Yeah, Nik why so damn militant all of a sudden. Next thing we know you'll be posing for pictures with Quannell X. (like Obama did)
The one-drop rule has one very specific reason behind its existence: the persistence of African hair, which unlike skin color, appears immune to dilution.
Nik, I have a name for the phenomenon, I call it "Russell Wilson hair". lol
And I'm sure you're aware that he's married to a white woman, right? :-)
He can almost pass the paper bag test himself.
"The one-drop rule has one very specific reason behind its existence: the persistence of African hair, which unlike skin color, appears immune to dilution."
I assume this is a joke; but if not, I'm a testament to its falseness, as my hair is a hybrid between hirusite texture spawning Sweden to W.Africa.
"Wow, your hair is just like a Poodle's!" is a refrain that summons disturbing childhood memories; that, countered with black girls saying, "ohh, you got that goood hair!"
Talk about cognitive dissonance.
"Russell Wilson hair".
I just looked him up. He's part white?
Talk about cognitive dissonance
Or the... tragic mulatto?
On a nice note, let me point out that I had no idea Slash from GnR is half-black. His father was white, which culturally at least makes a difference.
specifically, is because we're looking at the American history of race relations
In the past though, mixed B/Ws were uncommon. Their population surged 15 years ago, an artifact of Boys II Men songs and black guys at clubs accusing white girls of being racisss if she didn't want him to grind on her ass.
So now, moving forward, you being an identifiable demographic, why not have your own identity, rather than being anchored to blacks?
"Quannell X?"
That sounds like some kind of wholistic herbal hair relaxer.
There are someone mixed race kids in my neighborhood. From what I can tell at a distance, the girls don't have straight, silky white girl hair, but they don't have the kinky black girl hair either. It looks to be somewhere in between.
I had a black friend in high school, whose mother was light skinned. She actually had nice hair, although of a different texture than purely caucasian hair.
It surprises me how white most half black people are. I think our genes are strong.
A number of years ago, while I was in my 40s, I mistook a 14 year old (white) for an attractive 20 year old.
This habit mom's have of dressing their young girl children like grown-up women is really dumb. No doubt the 14 year old had make-up done just right, tweezered eyebrows, pierced ears, etc. For some reason a lot of American mom's seem determined to turn their daughters into jail-bait.
PA says,
"So now, moving forward, you being an identifiable demographic, why not have your own identity, rather than being anchored to blacks?"
Fine by me. I think 'biracial' is more accurate and it describes someone like myself culturally, who grew up familiar with both the nuances of white and black folklore (which, incidentally, is what I believe the determining factor is so often when discussing friction-sources between and among races).
I just stress the fact that I reflexively say i'm 'black' because that's what society has encoded me as already ----- and it just so happens that i don't have a problem with the assumption. Yet I don't mind a different tag for those biracials who do.
I mean, maybe if i was like, say, Slash or some well-known white-looking biracial, it'd be more of a issue. But if you saw Rick Fox or Lenny Kravitz walk up to you and say they were white, wouldn't that give you pause?
It's not some militant creed or reinforcement; just a bit of cultural reification that i didn't happen to mind, so didn't challenge or go against.
He's sitting in jail right now for having porn, kind of being an asshole, and smoking pot.
No, he is not. He is sitting in jail for violating the terms of his parole. And why was he on parole again? Not for having porn, being an asshole, or smoking pot.
"Rick Fox or Lenny Kravitz walk up to you and say they were white, wouldn't that give you pause?"
I don't know what Fox looks like, but with biracials i know, yes, it would give me a pause. But that's consistent with what im saying: the "one drop" alters what I expect to see from white.
What you call "Biracial" ought to be its own category and identity, neither black nor white. Culturally too. But "B" might be a temporary name before y'all reclaim Mulatto or create a new name for yourselves.
"And I'm sure you're aware that he's married to a white woman, right? :-) "
He's not married, is he? (My buddy earlier today was bragging about being 'friended'by him on FB and sent me pictures of him, Russell and Russell's 'girlfriend' at a Restaurant in Madison.
However, I did hear that she was white; tsk-tsk.
p.s. to P.A.,
I hear you, but come on now: you're not going to tell me that white girls have sex with black men because of p.c.-laced pick-up-lines delivered in a nightclub,are you? I mean, half the battle was lost once the girls were in the club, right? (Lol!)
Don't forget that your "Biracial" antecedents were destined to rule Haiti when the French were driven off. I don't discount the possibility of them making it work. Maybe through formalizing some kind of a caste system, with all that this implies.
But the blacks killed all of you. Lol (sad, actually) you wouldn't have been black to those guys.
Blacks will often proudly claim blood other than black. I think I heard Obama saying something about being Irish. I saw a video of a bunch of blacks down south, searching for a leprechaun on St. Patrick's Day. They just don't consider themselves generic white, it has to be some nationality.
"p.c.-laced pick-up-lines"
I've been to those clubs. That shit worked on girls. Saw it myself. The misceg. taboo broke suddenly circa 1991 and many girls responded to the direct game, after asking themselves "why not? Those Boys II Men guys are really sweet."
But that was before OJ & Nicole, and before the ubiquitous sight of very unglamorous fat blondes with mixed kids and no man at Walmart.
He's not married, is he? (My buddy earlier today was bragging about being 'friended'by him on FB and sent me pictures of him, Russell and Russell's 'girlfriend' at a Restaurant in Madison.
Yes, you're correct. Russell Wilson isn't married yet, but he is engaged to his (white) college sweetheart Ashton Meem.
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=76023155
PA says,
"The misceg. taboo broke suddenly circa 1991 and many girls responded ..."
I recall you writing about this in a earlier thred and I somewhat agree with your observations; I think we're fairly close to being contemporaries and i recall seeing a similar sort-of 'sudden-break' in terms of racial lines hitting that 'final frontier,' so to speak. But to me it always varied according to location: my h.s. days were in a Midwestern, city-adjacent suburb (think the setting from "Dazed & Confused", but ten-years later and 50% Jewish) and there it was pretty hard segregation among 'niggers,' 'burnouts' and 'preppies' ----- until it wasn't, and suddenly it seemed all these hard racial verities no longer applied. Or at least didn't apply so neatly.
That was very surreal to me; I grew up very sensitized to those earlier codes and didn't see the change coming; (that is why I seem so incredulous at times here when I hear stories about how whites envy blacks and how the media pushes this along ----- i'm not necessarily denying that happening to some extent; i'm saying that is extremely counter to my formative, deeply rooted experiences.
In college ----- in a classic SWPL stereotype of a college town as a undergrad and in Hyde Park as as grad student ------ those racial lines were much more blurred, and I saw all sorts of racial mixes that were long-established there but quite unusual to my formative POV up until then.
Also, when I comment upon these subjects now, i should say that my POV is heavily influenced by what I see in my K-12 public-school district, which I move through quite a bit on a regular basis; admittedly, that's not the most representative sample of 'America' writ large ------ but it probably is fairly telling of the future demographic of America, it's 'youths' and 'youfs' alike!
Who knows? (Happy New Year P.A., Lara, One, Camlost, Sheila, RobertB and whichever other choice debate-mates I left out! see ya in 2012!)
To expound on nickrits observations...
Men of Color are desired by white girls.
Women of Color have no time for white boys
That is why there is so much racism today. White men cannot compete without special privileges
Am I correct nickrit?
Wonder if blacks would be as forgiving of a big white 17-year old statutorily raping a 12-year old black girl. We'll never know because it never happens. I wonder if blacks notice the disparity in interracial rape. Some are so stupid, they deny it even exists. But for those that do, I wonder how they rationalize it--i.e., how is it whitey's fault.
As the father of twin girls who just turned 13, this case, I think, is what happens to white girls without fathers in the home. The gravitate to garbage culture--basically, alas, our popular culture: ghetto black culture; and that which should repel--subliterate, brutish animals--attracts. Teaching your children racial snobbery and pride in who they are and where they come from is the only inoculation against the onslaught of forces. As soon as my children started public elementary school, I printed out a list of white accomplishments vis-a-vis black accomplishments. I explained that their teachers, out of concern for the self-esteem of black children, seeks to minimize the disparity but to make no mistake about it: it's bullshit.
Women of Color have no time for white boys
LOL, at it again, eh? WoC are always hitting on me. Explain that.
Regarding the various comments about biracial identity, i.e. that biracials would be better off identifying as mulattoes or whatever, as opposed to strictly black, don't blacks themselves enforce a pretty strict racial hierarchy when it comes to skin tone, hair texture, facial features, etc.? Basically, the more caucasian you look, the higher you are on the scale.
LOL, at it again, eh? WoC are always hitting on me. Explain that.
I'm a half black girl and I think you're talking about Asian women since white boys love them so much. Either that or you're talking about Latina women (e.g. Jessica Alba, Salma Hayek). You're sure not talking about dark women that look like Keke Palmer, Tatyana Ali or Kerry Washington. I'm a brown girl like them and well most of us stay away from European men because there doesn't seem to be much chemistry between us.
Women white boys like - Most White women, many Asian women and a couple of Latinas.
Women white boys don't like - Brown chicks (dark Indian women, mulattas, half-black girls) and Black women (African).
And don't worry. Most of us stay within our ethnic lines too and stay away from fancying European men.
Regarding the various comments about biracial identity.
I'm half-black girl and I identity myself as mulatta and brown. I see myself neither as white nor black but I do consider myself part of the darker skinned populace since I'm pretty dark for a biracial girl.
@ Camlost
You expect impulse control from a DRUNK 17 year old ?
Knowing someone or growing up with them doesn't mean anything.
Mike—
Are you opposed to the entire concept of statutory rape? Because the whole point of it is to prevent 12-year-old girls from having sex with older guys, even if the 12 year old consents. Consent, for those aware of the law, includes saying the magic words "I'm 16."
What he clearly said he is against is applying strict liability to her age. That is if jurors believe him that she said she was 16 (perhaps with her getting on the stand and saying that), and looked like she was, then he should not be convicted of statutory rape if 16 is the age of consent in that state, as it is in a plurality of American states. I agree with that.
anonymous--
We don’t see how racism undergirds the very being of this nation and that it is intertwined throughout the fabric of our society. We don’t understand the invisible nature of it because we are not negatively impacted by it. We believe in the merit system because We have no reason to believe otherwise.
We white people should be required to take a class on white privilege in high school and college as part of our curriculum.
White privilege doesn’t exist other than as a result of the greater achievements of white people, and the greater achievements of their ancestors, which sometimes results in inheritances of more than trivial extent. Blacks are given privilege through affirmative action, disparate impact, government contractor racial set asides, disproportionate government hiring of less qualified blacks that greatly hurts governmental efficiency, and so on.
Black Death--
Black Death said...
6. Possessed porn in violation of his probation and then put it on his cell phone
***
12. Drank beer in violation of his probation.
I think it’s pretty oppressive to make those things a violation of his parole.
I mean what's the purpose?
I'm a brown girl like them and well most of us stay away from European men because there doesn't seem to be much chemistry between us.
I'm a white guy and I've had black (or brown) girlfriends. And they sure seemed to like me. I've always gotten along pretty well with black girls. It helps that you're more forward than white chicks.
if jurors believe him that she said she was 16 (perhaps with her getting on the stand and saying that), and looked like she was, then he should not be convicted of statutory rape if 16 is the age of consent in that state
I don't think the law is written that way.
And he was dumb to believe her. It's not like he was starved for pussy either.
anonymous--
I don't think the law is written that way.
Depends on the state. It is in some states, not in others. If reasonable mistake is not a defense, then it's called a strict liability statutory rape law.
To Mr. One STDV –
Your post stated exactly your point and your reasons for sympathy with this guy. The vast majority of commenters disagreeing with or criticizing you are not responding to what you said. If they can’t be bothered actually to read – or are too illiterate to understand – - or are too dishonest to care - what actually you wrote, then you should not waste your time qualifying yourself to them. Ignore or delete the non-responsive.
I see this all the time on this site and iSteve and others in this “-sphere.” Most comment threads could be described as “87 blind men describing a blog post (or reader comment).”
Apparently, reading comprehension is not any part of the otherwise all-inclusive suite of superior high-IQ traits and correlates claimed by the IQ-is-all crowd.
Again, if you write a potentially controversial post in which you explain specifically the reasons for your potentially controversial opinion, DO NOT then abase yourself with further explaining about how, e.g., “of course I am not in favor of adults having sex with 12-year-olds,” etc. Again, only a person of extremely low reading comprehension skills, or shameless dishonesty, could say you were recommending any such thing.
This habit mom's have of dressing their young girl children like grown-up women is really dumb. No doubt the 14 year old had make-up done just right, tweezered eyebrows, pierced ears, etc.
No, in fact she was not pierced or heavily made up, and she was dressed in a casual way appropriate to either a 14 or 20 year old (it was a casual occasion, not a party). Because I knew her parents I also got to know her, and she was really just a nice, wholesome 14 year old girl who came across as older. Part of it was that she was kind of tall, and already had a bit of a figure (slight, but definitely there). But a big part was that she talked more intelligently than 14 year olds generally do. So I guess she is not at all comparable to the 12 year old in the post. Still, if I had met her in a bar, and her intentions had been different, I could easily have been as screwed as Mr. Collins.
Anonymous said...
To expound on nickrits observations...
Men of Color are desired by white girls.
Women of Color have no time for white boys
That is why there is so much racism today. White men cannot compete without special privileges.
Am I correct nickrit?
12/31/2011 7:52 PM
Nikcrit's first 2012 resolution: I will no longer as much as respond to any ridiculous straw-black-man-liberal assertions put on me that I never uttered or as much as insinuated! (LOL!)
P.A SAYS,
"Black elites needn't swallow any pride; most of them are part-white and clearly look it. Cf. my question above to Nickrit, they can stop identifying as black, instead reclaiming the Mulatto identity. Then they can tell black people that they are on their own."
I know this thread is so 2011, but one final thought on the above quote, which I overlooked sometime, umm, last year.
Shortly after I got my b.a., I took a trip that summer to Africa, visiting Cameroon and Ghana; it was a very controlled, organized, college-connected trip, so I can't really say that it was all that revealing about African customs. But one thing I noted that seemed pretty uniform among the natives, and surprised me and several other American blacks is this: African blacks, though having an incredible amount of admiration for African-Americans, don't consider such folk to be 'Africans'; they, in fact, think of nearly any and all American blacks in a way similar to how we here classify 'mulattoes.' Several in our group were sort-of 'militant' blacks in the goofy, college-like way often satirized here ----- and those types are a frequent source of amusement of Africans, who think of American blacks, period, biracial or not, to American whites than they do to their black, African selves.
I mean, closer to home, I can think off the top of my head of several African-Americans with two 'black' parents who are lighter in skin tone than is my biracial self ----- so, in a way, I think there's already been a distinction marked among black Americans, and anymore parsing would just be somewhat redundant.
The distinctions you may be pointing out and feel are worthy of being made 'official,' possibly delineate class and background-orientation within the proverbial 'black community,' not something all that corollary to the parental racial lineage.
I'm a white guy and I've had black (or brown) girlfriends. And they sure seemed to like me. I've always gotten along pretty well with black girls. It helps that you're more forward than white chicks.
Yes but that's a minority and micro trend. It happened to you individually but it doesn't happen generally. Most statistics point to European men seeking European women, Asian women or Latina women as a whole. Basically what you're talking me is the equivalent of telling me that you have seen women taller than men and therefore women are taller than men but the reality is that as a whole men are taller than women.
Most statistics point to European men seeking European women, Asian women or Latina women as a whole
Perhaps. But the commenter claimed that black women avoid white men. That's a different matter and one which I disagreed with.
If a girl who has a fully developed body and exudes sexual confidence tells a man she is sixteen, then he has no reason not to believe her.
He has every reason not to believe her, as this case amply demonstrates.
If a girl you've never met before tells you she's 16 and wants to have sex with you, the correct response is to be deeply skeptical. And to sk for some ID.
If a girl you've never met before tells you she's 16 and wants to have sex with you, the correct response is to be deeply skeptical. And to sk for some ID.
You're 17, drunk and high, and an attractive girl with a breasts and ass is aggressively propositioning you for sex - are you going to stop to ask her for ID or even be able to think rationally in this situation?
Post a Comment