But consider that J4J wholeheartedly accepts Jews as full-scale members of the Christian community. The Christian community that still comprises the bedrock of our country, once the domain of the insular "goyim", doesn't care anymore - as long as you make a sincere effort at adopting their beliefs. J4J isn't a "tolerant" institution in the vein of modern leftist; it's moreso a "tolerant" institution in that it will accept a congenial minority group as long as that minority group respects the majority's culture. J4J makes this demand explicit and that's perhaps what grates its opponents most.The shrill opponents of Jews for Jesus often use the phrase anti-semitic (AS) to classify an organization that ironically welcomes Jews. But we shouldn't find this surprising given the grievance industry of multiculturalism - complaints on the grounds of discrimination usually prove successful.
In sum, the anger many Jews express about Jews for Jesus comes from an overly general definition of Jewishness, especially in the context of antisemitism (AS). Perhaps as a means of maintaining their dwindling numbers or as a way of showcasing their prodigious collective talents, Jews play rather loose with the definition of who actually qualifies as a Jew. In general, two main definitions of Jew exist: a person who believes in the Torah and a person, at least partially, descended from those of Jewish blood. The former is open to anyone, e.g. Shyne, and the latter comes from biological inheritance, with Jews undoubtedly a verifiable ethnic group(s).
Yet, professional rabble-rousers like Abe Foxman never actually distinguish between the two forms of AS. I've heard individuals like Foxman inveigh against both types of AS without noting the important difference, one of kind not type. In essence, anti-religious bigotry differs from anti-ethnic bigotry because the former entails disagreement with belief and not personhood. Belief is assuredly not intrinsic to personhood and disagreement or downright animus on account of belief should not be considered bigotry. This point is further supported by the notion that minority beliefs within the context of a larger homogeneous belief system, such as the religion of Judaism within American Christian culture, reflect a group's reluctance to participate fully within said society. By denouncing Judaism as a religion or, equivalently, denouncing Jews solely for believing in Judaism, the perpetrator merely expresses his own belief that another person(s) is wrong, especially important considering the irreconcilable inconsistencies between the two religions. Surely such a decry would not warrant the "two minutes of hate" directed at individuals like Ann Coulter.
Despite this rather obvious distinction, the Abe Foxmans of the world still conflate genuine AS with religious AS, the genuine version defined as enmity towards a Jew solely on the basis of his genetic heritage. (I won't get into collective animus or the more benign and possibly justifiable collective exclusion here, so let's stick with "hating a Jew because he was born a Jew" in discussing actual AS.) The anti-Jew from a religious standpoint is markedly different from the often irrational and spit-spewing actual AS because the former depends on something that can change. Basically, the religious AS will usually welcome the converted Jew as the Jewish convert expresses an authentic respect for the majority's traditionalism.
With that said, and what was initially the main point of the post, I contend that the Spanish Inquisition should not be exclusively regarded as anti-semitic. In sum, the Spanish Inquisition was a concerted effort by Spanish and Church power to ensure that Jews did not seek to undermine Spanish and Christian culture. In general, Jews were given the freedom to accept Christianity and live almost as full citizens within Spain, an explicitly Spanish Spain that did not tolerate cultural apostasy. Evidence follows.
The best piece of evidence for the notion that the Spanish Inquistion was anti-Jewish in a religious sense and not anti-Jewish in an ethnic sense comes after the initial attacks of the 14th century:
Thus after 1391 a new social group appeared and were referred to as conversos or New Christians. Many conversos, now freed from the antisemitic restrictions imposed on Jewish employment, attained important positions in 15th century Spain, including positions in the government and in the Church. Among many others, physicians Andrés Laguna and Francisco Lopez Villalobos (Ferdinand's court physician), writers Juan del Enzina, Juan de Mena, Diego de Valera and Alonso de Palencia, and bankers Luis de Santangel and Gabriel Sanchez (who financed the voyage of Christopher Columbus) were all conversos. Conversos - not without opposition - managed to attain high positions in the ecclesiastical hierarchy, at times becoming severe detractors of Judaism. Some even received titles of nobility, and as a result, during the following century some works attempted to demonstrate that virtually all of the nobles of Spain were descended from Israelites.Note that these "new Christians" were afforded the privileges of ethnic Spaniards, with little opposition based on their genetic lineage.
The Alhambra Decree gave Jews the option to convert and become members of a unified Spanish Christian nation:
The king and queen issued the Alhambra Decree less than three months after the surrender of Granada. In it, Jews were accused of trying "to subvert their holy Catholic faith and trying to draw faithful Christians away from their beliefs." These measures were not new in Europe.Ethnically Jewish Christian converts became such an entrenched part of society that their genetic inheritance persists today (though the paper has been questioned):
Some Jews were even only given four months and ordered to convert to Christianity or leave the country. Under the edict, Jews were promised royal "protection and security" for the effective three-month window before the deadline. They were permitted to take their belongings with them – except "gold or silver or minted money".
In December 2008, a genetic study of the current population of the Iberian Peninsula, published in the American Journal of Human Genetics, estimated that about 10% have North African ancestors and 20% have Sephardi Jews as ancestors.While some argue the Spanish Inquisition showcases political and papal power run amok, one could aver that the Spanish ruling class simply grew tired of a disjointed society with large numbers of Jews and Muslims stubbornly opposed to assimilation. The Christian intentions of the Inquisition illustrates the religious nature of the pogroms. This religious focus invalidates characterization of the Inquisition as genuine, ethnically-based antisemitism in which an individual Jew can do absolutely nothing, excluding even passionate expression of national or cultural loyalty, to exonerate himself for a purported genetic sin.
_______________________________________________________
Note 1: This is a nuanced argument regarding an always contentious subject. Please read it carefully before opining. It is obvious that I am downplaying only religious-based AS.
Note 2: I admit that this argument ignores some genuine ethnically-based antisemitism amongst the Spanish masses, but in general, as evinced by official decree and high intermarriage rates, this hostility was relatively rare
Note 3: It also goes without saying that I don't agree with killing people, for any reason.
Note 4: I purposefully focused my discussion on individual antisemitism and not group-related bigotry, e.g. "Jews started all the wars." This is another topic altogether and requires a different set of definitions, ideas, and historical background.
41 comments:
In sum, the Spanish Inquisition was a concerted effort by Spanish and Church power to ensure that Jews did not seek to undermine Spanish and Christian culture. In general, Jews were given the freedom to accept Christianity and live almost as full citizens within Spain, an explicitly Spanish Spain that did not tolerate cultural apostasy.
Isn't this all bleeding obvious? Criticism of the Jews specifically as a distinct ethnic or racial group only came to the fore in 1879 with the publishing of Wilhelm Marr's Victory of Judaism over Germanism: Viewed from a Nonreligious Point of View. Before that almost everyone perceived only religion as what ultimately differentiated Jews from gentiles.
B.B.
You do realize that the Spanish Inquisition didn't have anything to do with actual faithful Jews (who were all gone by then, in any case).
This era also brought about the concept of "cleanliness of blood".
I guess it's ultimately hard for a layman to say just how "religious" vs "racial" this whole thing was. It doesn't help that any research into this is probably affected by PC and other biases.
Perhaps I spoke to soon. I forgot about the concept of "cleanliness of blood".
B.B.
Very interesting.
If one is a truly believing Christian, then one cannot simultaneously believe that Judaism (along with Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.) is not factually wrong. The Christian should want non-Christians to discard their wrong beliefs and convert to Christianity.
Ironically, I think atheists are more to blame than any or all religious denominations for eradicating this country's public Christian culture.
"Most men's anger about religion is as if two men should quarrel for a lady that neither of them care for." ~George Savile, Marquess de Halifax
Human conflicts are always about something much more earthly than religion.
I once went out to lunch with all the secretaries at my old job. One of them was talking about how smart her Jewish boss is. She said, "You know they really are smarter than we are."
I think HalfSigma's thoughts on Jewish fear of conversion are well founded. Temple services are exceedingly long, boring, and in a foreign language.
I once went out to lunch with all the secretaries at my old job. One of them was talking about how smart her Jewish boss is. She said, "You know they really are smarter than we are."
I've noticed that, if I bring up the high intelligence of Ashkenazim to a member of said group, they quite like the compliment. This is even if I phrase intelligence in terms of IQ. But when I bring up inherent differences in intelligence among the races, they're quick to go all Stephen J. Gould on me.
What kind of tolerance is it if they (J4J) is trying to change the fundamenatal belief system. They tolerate the existence of Jews, but so what, if J4J tries to push them away from the core beliefs.
Also J4J doesn't address the Jewish responses to Christian "proofs" of Christianity. So to a Jew J4J is characterized by a high level of pushiness, lacks integrity, is based on a misinterpretation of the Bible, and tends to undermine traditional Jewish culture. but yes they tolerate the existence of Jews.
As for the Spanish Inquisition, you can't really analogize J4J to them because J4J isn't comparable to a government that seeks to enforce a common culture.
Let's say you're factually correct about the Inquisition. But the question is why take such drastic steps to preserve a religious culture. Jews did not seek converts and did not try to undermine Catholicism. And even if they were accepted after they converted, they still bore the burden of either having to convert and abandoning their principles, or leaving their homes. They could have been given the choice of being allowed to stay and observe Judaism as individuals but not publicly as a group, but they weren't.
As for Foxman, there's always the possibility that much of what he says is just to keep the donors writing checks. Then again, ADL has become just another leftist "civil rights" group and they have an interest in making bigotry appear more prevalent than it really is.
Just read the politically incorrect guide to the west where the author pointed out that a unified catholic spain never went through the disaster that the rest of europe did during the 30 and 80 year wars.
In contemporary discourse, the Reconquista is ALWAYS framed ONLY in terms of how it tragically ended this enlightened age that had been ushered in by the Moors and Jews. Through the kindness of their hearts they brought culture, science, and knowledge to a backward people who were nothing until their neighbors helped out. The truth is that the Moors invaded, conquered, and converted all they could and the Jews followed taking advantage of the new opportunities. The Jews would not have colonized Spain any more than they did New York City if it had not been for help of a larger religious host (in Spain’s case, the Muslims) who came beforehand with swords. For the politically correct, the history of Spain always starts in 1492 when the Moors were finally expelled. Ironically, in 1492 becomes safe to discuss invasion of indigenous cultures again after Columbus appears on the scene.
Here's the thing you've got to keep in mind (as obvious as it sounds): Jews exist.
For an ethnic group to exist while living in close physical proximity to a much much larger ethnic group there have to be strong barriers to intermixing. A small ethnic group that has no barriers to intermixing will have its most beneficial genes spread throughout the gene pool and cease to exist as a distinct ethnicity. As an example reference Neanderthals - all Eurasian descended people have significant Neanderthal genes but there are no living Neanderthals.
A successful Jews for Jesus would result in the extermination of the Jewish people - not from murder but from the fact that 2% of the population would be bred into the far larger group and disappear as a distinct ethnicity*.
The fact that nothing like this has happened is proof that there is some extremely strong force that prevents large scale Jewish integration and assimilation.
* And yes, this does imply that when the Undiscovered Jew comes here and talks about how Jews are on the brink of disappearing due to intermarriage that he's probably lying (or has a strong psychological bias towards both believing this type of claim and exaggerating its magnitude). Why is now so special on that front? What force existed that allowed Jews to exist as separate ethnic group in the past that no longer operates? Making such a claim without talking about what force could have caused such a powerful and unprecedented social change is like claiming that water is flowing uphill without talking about any kind of pumping system.
A successful Jews for Jesus would result in the extermination of the Jewish people - not from murder but from the fact that 2% of the population would be bred into the far larger group and disappear as a distinct ethnicity*.
The fact that nothing like this has happened is proof that there is some extremely strong force that prevents large scale Jewish integration and assimilation.
Jews are quite integrated and assimilated to their host populations, genetically speaking. The myth of Jewish ethnic purity is a myth.
Judaism in the West exists as an ideology, not as a religion or an ethnicity.
a person, at least partially, descended from those of Jewish blood.
Emphasis on the "partially". Jews use the one-drop-rule to their advantage.
Technically, a successful Jews for Jesus would result in the disappearance of the minority of religious-Jewish people, though not their "extermination". But it would have zero effect on the great majority people in America who we call "Jews", who are distinguished not by their religion (or lack of it) but by their common set of radical left-wing views.
Marriage and children with gentiles is really the only way Jews will assimilate. Even if the kids are raised Jewish they will have some gentile traits.
What kind of tolerance is it if they (J4J) is trying to change the fundamenatal belief system. They tolerate the existence of Jews, but so what, if J4J tries to push them away from the core beliefs.
Also J4J doesn't address the Jewish responses to Christian "proofs" of Christianity. So to a Jew J4J is characterized by a high level of pushiness, lacks integrity, is based on a misinterpretation of the Bible, and tends to undermine traditional Jewish culture. but yes they tolerate the existence of Jews.
You seem a tad confused about the meaning of this word "tolerate". In spite of what you might think after four years in the indoctrination center known as a "college", it does not mean "to venerate all minorities".
It is "tolerance" if you are not trying to coerce or punish other people. The idea that Jews have a special right not to have people aggue with them would be amusing if it were not already so damaging to our society.
Marriage and children with gentiles is really the only way Jews will assimilate. Even if the kids are raised Jewish they will have some gentile traits.
This has been going on for thousands of years already. Jews of European descent already have European traits, such as intelligence. That's not a trait much in evidence among non-European Jews.
(or has a strong psychological bias towards both believing this type of claim and exaggerating its magnitude)
I would say that yes, he has such a bias, considering that he's half-Jewish!
Anonymous 12:25:
There were already Jews in Visigothic Hispania, that had been there since Roman times.
In fact, in certain far-right circles it's commonly believed that the Jews were expelled because they helped the Muslims invade.
However, this is easily falsifiable, when you realize that the Muslims themselves were expelled from Spain decades after the Jews were!
I once went out to lunch with all the secretaries at my old job. One of them was talking about how smart her Jewish boss is. She said, "You know they really are smarter than we are."
They're really not. I don't say that merely because my own IQ is significantly higher than that of most Jews, but also because most of the "smart" Jews are remarkably stupid on some ways. They're like ideologues. They persistently pick the wrong side of every socio-political-economic debate to come down the pike.
It is "tolerance" if you are not trying to coerce or punish other people.
I was about to post the same thing. It's not intolerant to express disagreement with someone and seek to change his mind through argument. The problem is that, in the modern USA, a lot of people don't understand this. Merely expressing disapproval of same-sex marriage or affirmative action, for example, is interpreted as "oppressing" gays or AA beneficiaries.
@1:18
Part of the post WW2 revisionism in Europe is to repeatedly mention how the Jews were around with the early Christians or even pre-dated them thereby discrediting or delegitimizing the religious foundation of the country (you see this a lot in Germany as a backlash to their awful recent history). While I have no doubt that there were one of two Jews in Roman occupied Iberia (who were themselves invaders) up until the Moorish invasion, their presence was minor and they had almost zero cultural impact. But you have to look at why people keep establishing this factoid and ignoring everything else. This has much the same effect as what some Palestinians do by claiming to be part of the indigenous pre-Jewish population of what is now Israel (yes, there were people in Israel before the Jews). It is meant to undermine the culture. We know people are sensitive because it is funny when you do it to someone else but not so funny when it is done to you.
Prof. Woland
My task as a faithful son of the Church was to root out crypto-Jews and crypto-Muslims, those who falsely converted to gain the priviliges given to Christians.
Isn't this all bleeding obvious? Criticism of the Jews specifically as a distinct ethnic or racial group only came to the fore in 1879 with the publishing of Wilhelm Marr's Victory of Judaism over Germanism: Viewed from a Nonreligious Point of View. Before that almost everyone perceived only religion as what ultimately differentiated Jews from gentiles.
I don't think that's the case. A Jewish fellow by the name of Karl Marx wrote "On The Jewish Question" in 1843, where you will see e.g.
Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew – not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew.
Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew.
What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money.
Very well then! Emancipation from huckstering and money, consequently from practical, real Judaism, would be the self-emancipation of our time.
Look it up and read the whole thing yourselves. Marx did not view "practical, real Judaism" as having anything to do with the God of Moses and Abraham.
@Steve Johnson
"A successful Jews for Jesus would result in the extermination of the Jewish people - not from murder but from the fact that 2% of the population would be bred into the far larger group and disappear as a distinct ethnicity."
And explain why this is of alarming concern. Anglo Saxons just don't think that way, we like to mix our genes with others, we consider it an improvement usually.
But we shouldn't find this surprising given the grievance industry of multiculturalism - complaints on the grounds of discrimination usually prove successful.
Hmm, more like non white or non Christian complaints of discrimination by white Christians usually prove successful. A white Christian guy complaining that female black Muslims discriminated against him will gain him nothing, as we know. He would more likely suffer more injury.
I would not say that the Spanish Inquisition was purely anti-Jewish in a religious sense and not at all anti-Jewish in an ethnic sense.
As mentioned earlier by other commenters, there was the idea of "limpieza de sangre" or "cleanliness of blood".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limpieza_de_sangre
Lara said...
"And explain why this is of alarming concern. Anglo Saxons just don't think that way, we like to mix our genes with others, we consider it an improvement usually."
It's an alarming concern (for Jews) because, as I tried to state earlier, Jews are the descendants of people who remained distinct and did not intermarry with the majority. Since there are no physical incompatibilities between Jews and whites* there must be psychological barriers. Since this hasn't been scientifically studied we have to go by our observations. One of the barriers is the alarming concern that Jews (frequently) all display about their extinction from interbreeding.
Btw, it's easy to say that you improve your gene pool by breeding with another group if you're the group that is the far larger one. The other group will be swamped and your group will get the most beneficial alleles. If you're the small group you're talking about the end of your group and long term survival similar to what Neanderthals have - a genetic contribution to descendants that are mostly not your own.
* and yes, since most prominent Jews if asked if they're white will respond with "I'm Jewish" I grant them the right to define themselves out of being white
From the tradition Christian (Catholic), correct, WESTERN (non-Jewish), perspective, Judaism is a religion. As soon as you are baptized, you're not Jewish anymore. Period. And if you were baptized and called yourself Catholic but continued to spout Jewish poison in the public square, supposedly as a Catholic, you got your ass Inquisitioned. If you were of the Jewish faith, you were not subject to the Inquisition. Because you weren't fooling anyone. I'd like to see the entire idea of the "Jewish Race" Inquisitioned out of Western Culture.
@ Steve Johnson -- I think she was being facetious about mixing our genes being an improvement.
It's an alarming concern (for Jews) because, as I tried to state earlier, Jews are the descendants of people who remained distinct and did not intermarry with the majority.
Balls.
African Jews tend to look strangely African. Indian Jews look remarkably Indian. Somali Jews are downright Somalian. And European Jews are .... what's the word I'm looking for? ... European.
The ludicrous notion that Jews constitute some pure and distinct people is held only by lunatics like the Nazis and the Zionists.
since most prominent Jews if asked if they're white will respond with "I'm Jewish" I grant them the right to define themselves out of being white
If they were asked if they were human and responded with "I'm a vegetable", would you be be equally accommodating of their desire to define themselves as they like? Or is there such a thing as objective truth which is not subordinate to anyone's wishes?
@Steve Johnson
"Btw, it's easy to say that you improve your gene pool by breeding with another group if you're the group that is the far larger one."
Are you referring to gentiles here? We aren't all the same, there's a lot of genetic variety and in the United States we intermarry quite a bit.
"your group will get the most beneficial alleles."
I'm going to tell my friend to use that in his Match.com profile. I think it might work.
Anonymous -
"If they were asked if they were human and responded with "I'm a vegetable", would you be be equally accommodating of their desire to define themselves as they like?"
No.
Just pick a name, btw. Discussion is impossible with Anonymous responding to Anonymous. Oh, and did you see the devastating counter-argument that anonymous made? Completely demolished anonymous's argument.
Not hard, just pick Name/URL - no need to compromise your real life identity.
Lara -
"Are you referring to gentiles here?"
I'm making a general point. If you've got giant group A and tiny group B and you intermix them in 20 generations the best genes of group B will be spread throughout group A and group B will be otherwise extinct.
I really dislike the word "gentile" to mean non-Jewish whites. They are genetically distinct and don't want to be part of the group anyway. They get to have the different name. We're just whites. They're Jews. Our name shouldn't be a word that means "not one of them".
Steve,
I see your point now. If Jews are a separate race rather than just a distinct ethnicity we should acknowledge that. It seems like that is the case based in DNA tests and many of them want to keep it that way. My point was that if you divide white people up into various ethnic groups we aren't such a big group anymore, but you're right we are all still white.
I really dislike the word "gentile" to mean non-Jewish whites. They are genetically distinct and don't want to be part of the group anyway.
Jews are not "genetically distinct" from whites. Or at least, they are no more "genetically distinct" from any one group of whites than are any other groups of whites.
(I'm using "Jews" here in the sense that everybody on the blogs uses "Jews" - to mean European Jews. Though of course there are actually various non-Europan Jewish factions.)
Even Ashkenazi Jews are genetically distinct from Europeans (with greater dissimilarity from northern Europeans than from Southern Europeans), but that must be understood in context. In a worldwide context of genetic diversity, even the Levantine component of Ashkenazi ancestry is much closer to the Europeans than to any other macro-group outside the Middle East. Middle Easterners are the non-European group that is genetically closest to Europeans, and Levantines are the subset of Middle Easterners that is genetically closest to Europeans. Ashkenazim are predominantly an ancient mix of (probably southern) Europeans and Levantines, so even closer to Europeans than are typical Middle Eastern populations. This annotated plot from Razib Khan's discussion of one of two relatively recent Jewish population genetics articles at GNXP Discover is clarifying:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2010/06/jewfig2a.png
The fact that Ashkenazi Jews are differentiable in genetic analyses is enhanced by inbreeding. The inbreeding has caused them to be more similar to each other than to any other group and to form their own uninformative cluster in Dienekes Pontikos' clustering algorithms discussed at the Dodecad Ancestry Project website (http://dodecad.blogspot.com/). For this reason he has tended not to use data from Ashkenazi Jews in several of his more recent analyses. BTW, one can separate north Germans from south Germans if one uses enough informative alleles, so it is not so robust to declare that any differentiable group on a principal component plot is its own race.
Ashkenazim are predominantly an ancient mix of (probably southern) Europeans and Levantines
Nope, of northern Europeans and Levantines. The name "Ashkenazim" literally means "German Jews".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Jews
"The presence of Jews in Germania has been established since the early 4th century. The community prospered under Charlemagne, but suffered during the Crusades. (German Jews also founded the Ashkenazi Jewish community in the Dark and Middle Ages.)"
The fact that Ashkenazi Jews are differentiable in genetic analyses is enhanced by inbreeding.
There's never been that much inbreeding, or German Jews would not look and act so German.
The inbreeding has caused them to be more similar to each other than to any other group
You could say the same thing about every other group. It's what makes a group a group.
That the Ashkenazim lived in Germany does not mean that the admixture present in the population came from the Germans. The two major autosomal-DNA studies of Jewish population genetics published last year, one by Atzmon et al. and the other by Behar et al. show that Sephardic Jews and Moroccan Jews share the same European admixture although perhaps have less of it. Those other Jewish populations have no connection with Germany (except for a few Sephardic families that settled in Hamburg in the 17th century). Likely, admixture entered some branches of the Jewish Diaspora during Roman times.
These are Razib Khan's articles from GNXP Discover that discuss the articles:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/genetics-the-jewish-question/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/genetics-the-jews-its-still-complicated/
That the Ashkenazim lived in Germany does not mean that the admixture present in the population came from the Germans.
It pretty much does. Ashkenazim look like Germans. They have the high IQ of Germans. Logic suggests that this is so because they interbred with Germans.
The two major autosomal-DNA studies of Jewish population genetics published last year, one by Atzmon et al. and the other by Behar et al. show that Sephardic Jews and Moroccan Jews share the same European admixture although perhaps have less of it. Those other Jewish populations have no connection with Germany
I guess that is why they are called "Sephardic" Jews and "Moroccan Jews" and not "German Jews". Or "Somalian Jews" or "Ethiopian Jews" or any of the other multitude of Jewish sub-groups.
It's strange how all those inbred Jews who never, ever, have sex with non-Jews wind up in all these genetically distinct groups, isn't it?
"It's strange how all those inbred Jews who never, ever, have sex with non-Jews wind up in all these genetically distinct groups, isn't it? "
Typical obfuscating stupidity.
Who said never? Hell, living in NYC I've had plenty of sex with Jewish chicks - it's almost hard to avoid.
But they are genetically distinct. Further from Europeans than any European ethnicity is from any other. Closely enough related in their own group that all Ashkenazi are as related as 3rd cousins of any European ethnic group (in group breeding will do that for ya).
It pretty much does. Ashkenazim look like Germans. They have the high IQ of Germans. Logic suggests that this is so because they interbred with Germans.
You didn't read the links to GNXP that were provided:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/06/genetics-the-jewish-question/
"Two major groups were identified by principal component, phylogenetic, and identity by descent (IBD) analysis: Middle Eastern Jews and European/Syrian Jews. The IBD segment sharing and the proximity of European Jews to each other and to southern European populations suggested similar origins for European Jewry and refuted large-scale genetic contributions of Central and Eastern European and Slavic populations to the formation of Ashkenazi Jewry."
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