Monday, July 26, 2010

Real (White) Men Eat Meat:
How Vegetarianism Went Mainstream

A few weeks ago, I discussed the paleo diet and how it further substantiates the eponymous worldview:
The SWPL media has been all too willing to promulgate this lie [about fats being inimical to one's health]. They do so because meat eating has become synonymous with traditional and masculine culture, the bane of the liberal media.
While nutrition would seem independent of politics, the social aspects of food choices weaken such a distinction. On stuffwhitepeoplelike, Christian Lander notes this correspondence:
As with many white people activities, being vegan/vegetarian enables them to feel as though they are helping the environment AND it gives them a sweet way to feel superior to others...as they will talk about how they cannot eat anything and would rather that the meat and cheese be thrown in the garbage than put into their bodies.
Yet these ostentatious displays of nutritious haughtiness (ever known a vegetarian who didn't inform you of this) would seem at best only tenuously connected to other aspects of liberalism. However, if one understands the gradual politicization of science and its use as a social tool against traditional white culture, the motivation for nutrition dissembling becomes evident.

Science was once the domain of dispassionate truth seekers, largely removed from the social biases that dictate public discourse. But following the 1960's mandate of racial egalitarianism, liberal creationists viewed the ostensible gaps in scientific achievement as a potent means of undermining presumed institutional racism. Thus, no longer would institutional science serve as the ultimate symbolism of national hegemony or the romantic goal of our most astute minds. Instead, politicians and social revolutionaries see science as an empirically based but socially pliable aspect of the culture war.

Each polemical issue tacitly connected to scientific inquiry, the biological, environmental, and spiritual, is perverted in a manner as to frame whites and traditional Western culture as pernicious and uncouth and reflexive opposition to it as enlightened and beneficial. For example, the global warming charade elicits ire towards the productive, yet apparently toxic West while painting Africans and other depressed peoples as noble savages living harmoniously with nature. On this site, I needn't note the rampant silencing of racial and gender HBD. Finally, liberals accept a truncated version of evolution not as a reflection of genuine intellectual inquiry, but as a mean to discern the dignified from the ignorant masses.

And now back to nutrition. The typifying Western diet, especially the pre-60's Norman Rockwell depiction, includes large portions of meat. In a 1978 book, Richard Leakey and Roger Lewin sum up the contention that meat eating corresponds with traditional and masculine culture:
Women’s social standing is roughly equal to men’s only when society itself is not formalized around roles for distributing meat.
So meat eating evokes the pre-60's era, traditional meals for Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving, male-dominated hunting, and Western disconnect from the carb and starch-laden diets of Asia, South America, and Africa. Additionally, those that champion vegetarianism are generally similarly ardent supporters of alternative medicines, an explicit denunciation of the allopathic medicine central to the West. For these individuals, the hocus pocus balderdash of indigenous peoples acts as a proxy for the empirically-based methods of Western science. Note the preponderance of anti-vaccine and other pseudo-science promulgated by the Huffington Post. The foremost "luminary" of the alternative medicine community, Andrew Weil, repudiated modern medicine early in his career, instead studying under a Sioux shaman:
After a one-year internship at Mount Zion Hospital in San Francisco in 1968-69, he left the world of allopathic medicine entirely, to go off to an Indian reservation in South Dakota to study with a Sioux medicine man and learn about herbal medicine and ritual healing. "On the reservation," he says, "I participated in sweat lodge ceremonies, grew a beard, and `dropped out.'" At home afterward, "I started to practice yoga, experiment with vegetarianism, and learn to meditate.

[The Natural Mind] is a startling document -- a sharply drawn manifesto of New Age biology, a direct challenge to the scientific basis of conventional medicine, and a revealing window on Weil's style of thought.
I discussed the foundation of these beliefs in a posts on the noble savage phenomenon:
Thus, the oppressed non-whites and their noble savage wisdom must possess truths not readily available to the privileged Westerners. Further, the stodgy portrayal of Western science, with its empirical testing and data, speaks to a coldness perpetrated by an oppressive white ruling class. Contrastingly, the non-whites possess an exotic quality closer to the spiritual basis of man, not besmirched by the racist, classist, and sexist West.
With all these social forces acting in concert, the spurious claims of the pro-carb, anti-meat, anti-fat cohort find favor in our cultural and social landscape. The status seeking media will inundate the credulous public with any paradigm, no matter its veracity, if its foundational maxims connect to a non-white, progressive agenda. And we're all suffering as a result.

[Disclaimer: Bacon is processed meat so it's not paleo. But it was the only hot girl/meat photo I could find.]

36 comments:

kudzu bob said...

I personally hope that more people become vegetarians. After all, we'll need a slave race for when the oil runs out.

NutUpOrShutUp said...

I have always found vegetarianism funny, due to the fact that many hunter gather peoples, worshiped by liberals, obviously have a diet largely made up of meat. However, part of this is due to the fact that liberals are quite ignorant of hunter gather cultures. Like one time I told my relative who is professor who teaches at university, that some people in Paupa New Guinea have immunity to mad cow like diseases that are transmited by cannibalism. She could not believe that people in Paupa New Guinea actually ate other people. Also mentioned this fact after we had a meal of vegetarian pizzas, since my relative is one of those young blonde women with an attraction to a vegetarian life style. I hated the pizzas, and wanted to make a point to her that people actually eat meat. That some people have even have evolved a propensity toward eating other people.

silly girl said...

OneSTDV,

My son was watching stupid youtube videos this morning, when he happened upon one in which some teens were microwaving an egg in the shell basically for laughs. Anyway, almost two minutes in they start making jokes about the supposed baby chick in the egg. The one says it was never going to be anything and the other replies,

"So, inner city kids are never going to be anything either"

The first guy then says, "That's a good point."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQHXDGVdfGs



Who says folks don't know HBD.

They are just a couple of goofy teens, and they get it.

Anonymous said...

I myself have been doing really well on a low-carb/high-animal-fat diet. Now in the summer I have been cheating by increasing the amount of fruit, and notice that the health problems are starting to return.

I have been seriously considering switching to a more radical 0-carb diet, basically meat and water diet.

Please read the first couple of pages of this zero-carb thread on Active Low-Carb Forums. The health benefits appear to be amazing.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=401683

Anonymous said...

For the first 23 years of my life I was a vegetarian. This is because I am of Hindu Brahmin descent. On this note, I wonder if, um, this paleo diet idea really does apply equally to all peoples. It is quite likely that my ancestors have been vegetarian for over a thousand years. In this case, might it not be that our bodies have evolved to get our required protein out of just milk and lentils?

Anonymous said...

(ever known a vegetarian who didn't inform you of this)

Sampling bias much?

Chuck Ross said...

One:

Good post.

My girlfriend is a vegetarian, and she's one of these who openly mentions her vegetarianism at any opportunity she gets.

We've argued several times about it. I usually mention a.) you don't hear "real" vegetarians i.e. Hindus born into non meat eating environments talking about being vegetarian; they merely don't eat meat and b.) "vegetarian" is a culturally trumped up label that is used because it sounds green and soft and naturalistic and hippy. instead of being someone who chooses not to eat meat, whereas i devour meat at every opportunity i get, they have to provide a label for themselves in order to partition themselves off from the rest of us carnivorous heathens. they created this dialectically opposed label to fulfill some sort of agenda.

it's also funny to me that cultures that don't eat meat are either trapped in poverty or excessively wealthy i.e. Ethiopia and their grain sacks and the U.S. with their militant veg-tards. not having meat in the diet is a sign of poverty; only in this culture can we turn that romantic notion of poverty into a status symbol.

OneSTDV said...

Now in the summer I have been cheating by increasing the amount of fruit, and notice that the health problems are starting to return.

No, fruits are good, just make sure they're not sprayed with tons of pesticides! And so are vegetables, those are paleo.

On this note, I wonder if, um, this paleo diet idea really does apply equally to all peoples.

I think there's some variation, but note that many vegetarian, high-carb cultures found ways to treat their grains (I believe primarily through fermentation) that negates the bad health effects. And of course, these would be 100% whole grain with no high fructose syrup or any other modern stuff added.

And when I say meat, that always includes fish and eggs, two other great sources of protein (especially eggs).

dalrock said...

Spot on OneSTDV.

One thing I find fascinating is how little interest the Evo Psych folks have in hunting. So many of the male-female differences are due to this, but it is almost like everyone is embarrassed to talk about it. I think it has to do with the SWPL bias against hunters as sister marrying red necks.

For the record, I did not marry my sister (but my neck is quite often red).

I posed the question on my own blog whether PUAs are mixing hunting and reproductive instincts. Maybe I read it the wrong way, but it seemed the reaction I got from some at least was that of a turd in the punchbowl.

But one of the PUAs from CRs site (Gorbachev) is a bow hunter and offered some fascinating insight into this in the comments.

BTW, I have some new posts on my blog that I think you might really enjoy. One is revenge of the Betas (nerds), and the other is "This is what a Beta looks like". If you have a chance feel free to swing by and share your thoughts in the comments.

dalrock said...

I forgot to mention. In the book 10,000 Year Explosion they point out that vitamin D is plentiful in a meat rich diet. They posit that lighter skin was selected for not so much because of lack of sunshine, but because of the switch to a less meat based diet.

Matt said...

Point made, and it's plausible that this complex of ideas exists but I do see more Noble Savage stuff from paleo guys romanticisng herders and foragers though. Check agnostic's blog when he starts talking about pastoralists. Guys like the Sioux.

And paleo people are fairly cynical towards the established science while vegans do try and use it to argue what they want. They both admire it when it gets what they want anyway and are skeptical when it isn't.

So I'm not sure this is that useful a lens to see this stuff through. That is to say, I'm sure this association of ideas exists, but it's one of many and I think you're ascribing more dominance to it than there is.

Matt said...

Point made, and it's plausible that this complex of ideas exists but I do see more Noble Savage stuff from paleo guys romanticisng herders and foragers though. Check agnostic's blog when he starts talking about pastoralists. Guys like the Sioux.

And paleo people are fairly cynical towards the established science while vegans do try and use it to argue what they want. They both admire it when it gets what they want anyway and are skeptical when it isn't.

So I'm not sure this is that useful a lens to see this stuff through. That is to say, I'm sure this association of ideas exists, but it's one of many and I think you're ascribing more dominance to it than there is.

Anonymous said...

However, part of this is due to the fact that liberals are quite ignorant of hunter gather cultures.

I think the funniest extension of this I've ever encountered was some nice, earnest, Liberal, vegan girl I spoke to who basically said that meat eating was marginal amongst foragers and that it was pursued for some kind of drug like quality (that apparently meat offers) and for symbolic and social dominance reasons.

I'm not really averse to the idea that humans evolved towards meat eating because meat eating variants had a selective advantage in intercommunal battles for male dominance or anything (protein=larger, stronger), though I doubt that's what happened but the degree of avoidance of the fact that the benefits you get from meat are nutritional benefits was quite staggering to me.

dalrock said...

My wife's OBGYN asked her if she was a vegitarian, because if so she would need weekly (I think) supplement shots while pregnant.

So being a vegetarian is quite natural and all from an evolutionary perspective, so long as you don't reproduce.

Maybe this isn't true in a stronger vegetarian culture though. I think that would still put vegetarians in the distinct minority at any given time in human history.

Anonymous said...

Aren't a lot of folks in India vegetarians?

TAS said...

Good points. I've long felt that the promotion of vegetarianism was linked to attacks on masculinity in general, but I had never considered the anti-white aspect of it before.

The Undiscovered Jew said...

My low-ish carb diet is working even better than before because I'm taking Resveratrol in combination with Quercitin, Curcumin and piperine, and I was already naturally thin.

Stopped Clock said...

I dont know about light skin evolving due to lack of meat. Didnt the paleo-Europeans eat more meat than just about anyone else save for the Eskimos? I mean there's not much you could grow up there in northern Europe before modern technology arrived. Even potatoes arent native. The palest-skinned Europeans must have been getting almost all of their nutrition from meat and very little from grains and vegetables for thousands of years.

I have gone through phases of not wanting to eat chicken, because of all the animals that we eat, they are the ones that have the cruelest farm life, but Ive never really felt sorry for eating cows and pigs since they dont seem to have such a rotten life. In fact, I wish I was a cow myself so I wouldnt have to go to work every day.

Matt said...

Didnt the paleo-Europeans eat more meat than just about anyone else save for the Eskimos? I mean there's not much you could grow up there in Northern Europe before modern technology arrived.

http://tinyurl.com/3y9cqo7

I'd figure Europe's like the Pacific Northwest (broadly), so look at the New World samples here, which are heavily skewed towards that region. I'd guess Europe was like 35% hunting, 35% fishing, 30% gathering, while warm climates like in Africa are more like 25% hunt, 20% fish, 55% gather. Hunter gatherers tended to be most populous around coasts and rivers because of the fish component (and Europe has lots of coasts). Might've been a higher degree of hunting and fishing during colder conditions though. Not sure how similar it would be in North East Asia (like North China, Korea, Japan Asia).

B Lode said...

The Western admiration of vegetarianism reminds me of something Mohandas Gandhi wrote about meat-eating. He said he tried mutton (or goat? don't remember) at one point, but it was so alien to him he didn't swallow. The point was that the Indians noticed the Britons being taller, and chalked it all up to environment (sound familiar? ... it may be true, I don't know), and so some of them thought Indians should convert en masse to meat eating. (In general Hinduism says: chicken: okay, beef: forbidden, lamb: okay, pork: ? ... but a lot of high-caste folks eschew meat altogether.)

Anyway, to some degree there is going to be a "veg is always greener" ('scuse the expression) effect.

B Lode said...

I mean there's not much you could grow up there in northern Europe before modern technology arrived. Even potatoes arent native. The palest-skinned Europeans must have been getting almost all of their nutrition from meat and very little from grains and vegetables for thousands of years. - Stopped Clock

This is far from anything I know much about, but a lot of Europe is pretty good orchard country. Apples and various nuts. I think wild turnips would have been available too.

Temperatures drop pretty fast when you go north in Europe. I don't know how far back we can go before we enter pure speculation, but it seems like it wouldn't have been too hard to get some nice Baltic fish in your diet if you could load up a cart (which I assume are about as old as the chariot, i.e. very old) with chestnuts and go north for a trade. Dried fish and dried fruit store pretty well.

Those are all paleo-acceptable. But if you go back to the real Paleolithic, you are probably right - low population densities wouldn't have taxed the herds of reindeer, deer, aurochs, or horse too much. Plus there would be wild boar and I suppose folks could eat predators. Short-duration game shortages would have happened, I suppose, so light skin may have ensured some Vitamin D during those hard times of eating roots and crickets.

Anonymous said...

Maybe the vegetarian movement will help those people get ready for our eventual diet of soylent green?

Ulysses said...

Bacon may not be paleo, but I'll be damned if I'll ever eat a diet that doesn't include it. Bacon is delicious. It's the first meat I could get my elder daughter to devour once she switched to solid foods.

BamaGirl said...

I don't think the paleo diet is more natural for all European descended people. Farming has been in Europe for thousands of years, not to mention the fact that much of the population lived near the coastlines where fish would have been abundant. I'm not a vegetarian and never have been but meat has just really not appealed to me taste-wise for most of my life. I'll eat it if nothing else is around though. I like turkey seafood and milk products though.

silly girl said...

I'm with bama girl on this one. I come from a long line of very thin, very healthy, long lived folks who could eat anything and not get fat, or feel fatigued etc. I think the paleo thing may be great for some folks, but some of us can eat pop tarts, potatoes, fruit, pizza and beer day in, day out and be healthy for 90-100 years. There are tons of folks male and female in my family just like that. The few fatties that married in only produced a few fatties but even most of their kids were like us and when it got to the grand kids, they were back to thin again.

Truth is some folks just have no problem with carbs. If you do, then yeah you have to find a way to deal with it.

dalrock said...

@B Lode
But if you go back to the real Paleolithic, you are probably right - low population densities wouldn't have taxed the herds of reindeer, deer, aurochs, or horse too much. Plus there would be wild boar and I suppose folks could eat predators.

Don't forget about Woolly Rhinos. Mmmm! Rhino burgers! Seeing pics of these makes me suspect they are part of the reason big game hunters get such an adrenaline dump when they first see the animal in a hunting scenario (Buck Fever). Makes my pulse rise just looking at them.

Wiki may be all wet, but this fits with what Discovery was showing the other day (which may also be all wet...):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolly_rhinoceros

Many species of Pleistocene megafauna, like the woolly rhinoceros, became extinct around the same time period. Human and Neanderthal hunting is often cited as one cause.

Imagine taking one of these down with primitive weapons, and I think you will have a better idea who you are under all of our civilizing culture. Today many men have more hair care and grooming products than Pleistocene humans had spears and knives. But our basic nature hasn't had that much time to change I think.

Kind of funny to think that underneath that vegan, metro exterior so many current men have, a real top of the food chain hunter still exists begging to be let out.

OneSTDV said...

Truth is some folks just have no problem with carbs. If you do, then yeah you have to find a way to deal with it.

Yes, of course there are people like this (I'm one of them, though thin doesn't necessarily mean healthy).

But given the modern obesity epidemic, I don't think these carb-immune people constitute a large portion of Americans.

mherzog said...

Here's a good video on meat: http://meat.org

Lucinda said...

@Anonymous 9:20: Don't you know that SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!! That was the great tag line of the movie!

namae nanka said...

"Aren't a lot of folks in India vegetarians?"

Yes, but Hindus do eat meat, my ancestors lived in a mountainous area and meat was a big part of their diet.
The warrior classes(shatriya) are meat-loving folks, it's the brahmins who strictly observe vegetarianism. others fall in between.

Google Maneka Gandhi, she swore me off meat once, by highlighting the unhygienic way in which meat is (un)processed and of course, the pain in the eyes of the animals being cut down. She must have had some part in putting off some like-minded people like me, but not any more.

And meat was/is much pricier than vegs, reducing it to a delicacy even in normal homes. So more of an economic constraint.

Beef has been banned for religious purposes..pork isn't sold by muslims(generally the majority of meat-suppliers), mutton and chicken are the most popular.

Though even here more girls find it fashionable not to eat meat. but funnily enough, the two most voracious meat-eaters I have encountered in my lifetime are my little sisters who have not yet bought into its "emotional" aspects.

The Fat Caveman said...

One thing I've noticed is how few vegetables people who call themselves "vegetarians" actually eat. I've noticed the bulk of their diets are made up of grains and pulses.

At lunch I'll pull out a home made salad full of vegetables, herbs with a good chunk of roast chicken and they be having pasta or lentils - then explaining how their vegetable based lifestyle is healthier than mine.

I've started on a paleo/primal diet but I'm not telling people unless they ask - too much damned work.

Morghan said...

The real base for health is what you do. I grew up on a ranch and what we ate three meals a day would have a sedentary person blow up in to an immovable blob who would have a heart attack by forty. We got up at five and went to bed at nine and most of the time we were awake we were doing something that required us to move.

Simon said...

I'm a vegetarian and I don't do it out of contempt for the west or traditional masculinity. I do it because I want to reduce the suffering of animals.

As Steven Pinker says in the Blank Slate, if you have a moral position you can't apply it just to yourself. I know my own dietary decisions wont have an impact on factory farming so I'd argue for other people to become vegetarian so the critical mass begins to decrease demand for meat.

Making moral decisions about eating is part of leading an examined life for me, and not about alternative medicines.

If you want to start talking about alternative medicines and believing in noble savages start with the Paleo diet.

Anonymous said...

Re vegetarianism:
I hate it when I encounter it amongst upper income Americans because - ask any doctor - the number one dietary deficiency in the world is iron. Lack of meat is the reason.
I recall vividly the night I was out walking and I saw a man in his thirties slightly ahead of me. He looked successful, well-dressed in bermuda shorts and polo shirt. He looked like he was from India or Pakistan.
Yet something seemed wrong. Then I noticed it: he was bowlegged. This man will live his whole life with this deformity due to insufficient diet when a child.
When you see things like this your sympathy for the fatuous vegetarian diets of some people immediately ends.

Anonymous said...

I wonder if the idea that the Paleo humans were so magnificent sturdy individuals because of meat consumption is valid. It seems to me that the Paleo humans became physically as robuse as they were because they were prey themselves for eons. Extremely strong selective pressures resulted in fast tough individuals.
Absent any such pressure you begin to see deterioration.

Anonymous said...

comment copied from Roissy's blog but very relevant here:

"van Rooinek

Once in college (80′s), a vegetarian girl approached me at a party and asked me, rather sniffly, if I was a hunter. I don’t know how she knew, as I was not wearing hunting related garb nor was I talking about the subject. I guess she discerned it from my body language or the way I walked. Of course, I answered, Yes, and the debate was on. Naturally, like all such debates, it eventually moved away from surface issues to core philosophy. Ultimately, it became a religious debate — JudeoChristian versus Newage world views — which went nowhere.

However…. the WEIRDEST THING… Somewhere during the conversation it became apparent to me that this girl was strongly attracted to me! Which was rare for a nerdy technical type, even a tall and decent looking one such as myself , as (unfortunately) a niceguy/beta persona normally cancels the advantage of an alpha physique. It boggled my mind until, long afterwards, when I realized:

(a) Women prefer badboys, and from the perspective of a liberal vegetarian, a conservative hunter was the ultimate badboy!

and,

(b) A hunter triggers (no pun intended) a deep ancestral longing in a woman for… well, a hunter, a man who can provide in the most primitive, rawest terms. Being a “beta” almost doesn’t matter at that point — after all, in the stone age most hunters were betas because most men in general are betas.

What a shame that her liberal/feminist/urbanist/vegetarian programming, caused her to resist on ideological grounds, the very sort of man her most ancient instincts craved AND UNERRINGLY PICKED OUT OF THE CROWD…. Poor thing. I’m sure she hasn’t had a happy life. I certaintly wanted nothing to do with her; “Do not be unequally yoked”, either in faith or at the dinner table, and besides she had narrow boyish hips… yuck. (I eventually married and had a family with a beef eating, breeder hipped, Bible thumper…. and couldn’t be happier.)"

Bwahaha