Is backlash against the Game community starting? An Israeli court convicted an Arab man of "rape by deception" for coercing a Jewish woman into sex by lying about his ethnic background. What does this portend for the United States and the growing pick up community?
Legal experts say those who lie in the course of courtship are unlikely to face jail time — most U.S. states don't have rape by fraud laws, and even in those that do, prosecutions are extremely rare. But in recent years, there have been attempts to broaden rape laws in order to deal with this complicated and controversial issue.
In one case, a man from Westfield, Mass., was accused of rape after he allegedly impersonated his brother in order to have sex with his brother’s girlfriend in the middle of the night. The sex was consensual, but the court ruled that “intercourse where consent is achieved by fraud does not constitute rape.” [In my opinion,this specific case is rape.]
Those pushing these new laws ensure rigid boundaries will be set:
Their goal was to do so without hamstringing the Bostonian at a bar who makes up a story about his heroic feats in order to seduce a woman.
A law professor at a TTT sums it up nicely:
“What’s the difference between ‘I will love you forever and we’re going to get married’ and ‘I am LeBron James?’” Falk asked. “What constitutes romantic inducements and things that are fraudulent enough for the law to take recognition of?”
I understand the purpose of this law or, at least, the expressed purpose couched in a legal framework. Yet in actuality, this represents
more aggressive action against beta males, now forbidden from merely adopting alpha male characteristics lest their charade be exposed. In the hands of a rueful co-ed and a crusading feminist lawyer, such amorphous laws could lead to an epidemic of false rape cases.
17 comments:
“What’s the difference between ‘I will love you forever and we’re going to get married’ and ‘I am LeBron James?’"
If a female doesn't know you well enough to figure out that you aren't really a celebrity, she really shouldn't be having sex with you.
"Yet in actuality, this represents more aggressive action against beta males, now forbidden from merely adopting alpha male characteristics lest their charade be exposed."
It's a well known fact that the sexes can't get along unless they drench their speech with sweet sweet lies.
These two intelligent comments were posted to the MSNBC article:
"If a guy can be prosecuted for lying about his wealth to get laid, then the woman should be prosecuted for prostitution, because at that point she's defined WHAT she is - now she is simply defining her price."
"There is a huge difference between saying to a women...have sex with me or I'll kill you (even though it is a lie) and...have sex with me I am a wealthy, succesful man.
Woman lie all the time..
Makeup, push up bras, dyed hair, fake nails, color contacts....not who they are...just want to look better (remember men are visual)
A man does the same when he speaks of what he does (woman want security)
People need to take responsibility. You have sex if you want once you get to know someone...how long these people knew each other...oh they don't say..so if this was a one night stand and the girl throws herself to the..you really consider it rape because the guy embelished what he does for a living? Please..the guys could say he was raped too because when he woke up on the morning, it didnt look like the same girl he picked up the night before!"
The verdict in Israel was racist and patriarchal (as opposed to feminist). A number feminists have brought complaints about the decision based on feminist reasoning. To them, the decision reeks of a paternalistic attitude ie "don't touch our women".
I read of an earlier instance of this law being used in Israel. A man pretended to work for the housing ministry in order to get sex from a homeless woman. He promised her housing and a number of benefits. I wouldn't call that rape, but I could definitely see the argument that the crime of fraud occurred.
Still, if courts can't manage to apply to law to cases of fraud with objective consequences, then they ought not have the law at all. The problem with the verdict regarding the Muslim man was that it relied on the court accepting an individual's personal aversion to another person's religion as a real basis for harm. I should think that violates the secularity of laws.
Yet in actuality, this represents more aggressive action against beta males, now forbidden from merely adopting alpha male characteristics lest their charade be exposed.
I disagree. Beta males' access to Game gives them tools to be a cooler version of their real selves, not liars. I believe in ethical Game.
I wholeheartedly support the Israeli court's verdict. Reverse the situation for a moment: an Israeli man lies about being an Arab to bed a Pali girl. Her relatives would kill him.
For whatever reason, Israelis don't do this familiar response, so the courts are stepping in. Good.
I'd add one more caveat: if the girl were Arab, she woudl not escape shaming for slutting around. Neither shoudl the Israeli one.
a paternalistic attitude ie "don't touch our women".
I support that attitude because it is a human universal. Men who lack this attitude and consequent action are either gelded, or their women are worthless.
"Men who lack this attitude and consequent action are either gelded, or their women are worthless."
At least we're agreed. The impulse for this verdict is not feminist.
I think the Israeli judges were being feminist when they allowed that verdict - but it was a feminist approach within an implicit "patriarchal" ethno-nationalist context.
Within that context, they probably consider themselves to be quite sensitive and enlightened.
@FemX
The verdict in Israel was racist and patriarchal (as opposed to feminist).
And if feminism in practice had any actual meaning other than sticking it to men, the above sentence would be rational. In the real world, it is simply laughable.
He promised her housing and a number of benefits. I wouldn't call that rape, but I could definitely see the argument that the crime of fraud occurred.
If he hadn't lied (really did work for govt housing admin) then he would have been guilty of corruption. But since he didn't, the only way you can call it fraud is if you presume the woman was a professional and he failed to pay his tab for services rendered.
Turning it around, if she promised to blow him if he gave her something of value, and he did but she reneged (or turned out not to know what she was doing), could he sue her for fraud?
Are pick up artists potential rapists? Well, duh.
Blacks are better pick up artists and more likely to be rapists.
Whatever it is that makes some guys naturally good at playing pick up chicks, is somehow correlated to what makes them more likely to be rapists.
If PUAs can be charged with rape by deception, then shouldn't women who artificially make themselves look better than they really are (i.e. with makeup) be charged under such laws, as well?
then shouldn't women who artificially make themselves look better than they really are (i.e. with makeup) be charged under such laws, as well?
I was half-seriously going to post on how fake blond hair should be outlawed. Along with fake boobs.
related @ TAS:
so this really does nothing for you?!?!
(lsfw) http://guyism.com/2010/07/miranda-kerr-photos-victorias-secret.html/miranda-kerr-photos-002
Along with fake boobs.
Fake boobs SHOULD be outlawed. They're gross.
If someone were to dress like a bank teller and open up a closed window and takes peoples' deposits and sneaks away with all the money - was he a bank robber?
The people were not threatened. The people willingly handed over their money but under false pretences. If the fact that there was consent in the transaction then the fraudster, if caught, should only be a given a "slap on the wrist" but gets to keep the money. The judge would then tell the people who lost their money look up the phrase "caveat emptor".
To the degree that replies to this thread are not tongue-in-cheek, I'd have to say this kind of ruling doesn't seem that scary, since the courts were dealing not with a misleading statement or half-truth but with a plain old lie.
AFAIK, PUAs aren't advised to lie outright. They shouldn't have to; game suggests that you constantly say more-or-less meaningless things that sound vaguely aggressive and noncommittal. Is "Who brought their little sister to the bar?" really dishonest? Is it a lie to look bored when you want to sleep with someone?
I think this is a tempest in a teapot.
(To the degree that we are being facetious, I think tattoos, silicone, and genital piercing should be outlawed. Also, complaining about the health effects of point shoes, pumps, and stiletto heels should be banned, and damn the First Amendment. Either you haven't worn them, and your comments are hearsay, or you have, in which case you shouldn't bitch.)
Recent comments is stuck. That is whack.
***Is backlash against the Game community starting?***
I don't think so. Does Game involve lying about your race or career?
I thought Game was more a mindset, not putting women on a pedestal and trying to be overly 'nice' to get their approval? Being 'c8cky funny' (David DeAngelo), having confident body language etc..
“PUAs are potential rapists”
I resent the implications of that. What do you mean _potential_? If you see the poem I made for Roissy (in my latest post, Alpha Dominance Space Ship), you can see I’ve got more than potential, I’ve got da surprise swoop.
------Some female says
Perhaps its better to avoid things like deception and otherwise being a [censored word] in the first place (And no, hitting the gym, improving your appearance etc is not the same thing)
Nah, how beta would that be?
-------End some female
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