Saturday Audience Participation
Madalyn Murray O'Hair was the one-woman precursor to today's New Atheism movement headed by Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, and Dennet. A tireless advocate for secularism (or anti-religious zealot), she would found American Atheists and make a lot of enemies along the way. Murray O'Hair actually reveled in insulting religion and its adherents; she refused to mince words in denouncing what she perceived as the destructive and irrational aspects of religious belief. This was a woman who invested her entire being into undermining and opposing religion.
In 1980, as Murray O'Hair continued her crusade, her eldest son, William, was baptized at a Baptist Church and would later become a preacher. While many parents assure their children of unconditional love and support, Murray O'Hair said this of her son:
"One could call this a postnatal abortion on the part of a mother, I guess; I repudiate him entirely and completely for now and all times...he is beyond human forgiveness."That's about the harshest words one could expect from a mother. Perhaps she owed such a response to her unflinching rationality where reason and logic take precedence over emotion and other aspects of the "incorporeal soul". She could not forgive such a betrayal, such a transgression against her most treasured principles and motherhood couldn't mollify her negative reaction.
Today's question is about family and the bonds that tie them together. If your child adopted some moral or political system or some way of life that directly opposed your most important values, how would you respond? If your child turned out to be the queen of the gays, would you shower him with love? If your child promoted, in an official position, unfettered immigration, anti-racist Tim Wise propaganda, or other far-left liberalism, could you compartmentalize such iniquities, choosing blood over politics?
20 comments:
This is why I dont take all the calls I hear on websites like this for us to have many children very seriously. If I had children (which I dont plan to), I know that the chances that they would grow up to resemble me politicially are close to zero. But, yes, I would love them just the same, just as I love people who are already opposed to me politicially today.
The quote is "alleged", the original article is no longer online and no book in Google Books offers anything BUT this snatch of quote.
Not to mention the fact that all context is removed.
I'm no fan of people like her and I understand that the point of your post wasn't about her either but you allowed your visceral dislike for her to color how you presented the truth. The sole "quote" that you offered does NOT tell us what you pretend it tells us. Extraordinary claims (that an atheist mother fully and wholly renounced her son for all time because he became a christian) require extraordinary evidence - because they're often untrue.
"If your child promoted, in an official position, unfettered immigration, anti-racist Tim Wise propaganda, or other far-left liberalism, could you compartmentalize such iniquities, choosing blood over politics?"
You always love your children.
I don't hate leftists -- related to me or not -- either, I just disagree with their politics.
Let's not lump Harris in with the rest. He believes in the mystical--to wit, Buddhism.
It is quite obvious that you don't have children - or you wouldn't even need to ask. The blood is always above politics. And in every instance where it is claimed otherwise, it is a lie.
@ Anonymous:
Clearly you aren't aware of my thoughts on religion.
@ Guts:
Does Harris really believe in Buddhism? I'm not sure. I've always thought he was using spiritual terms in a metaphorical sense. I'm not sure though that he's an atheist; in The End of Faith, he actually never uses the term atheist.
As for the post, I do have a close family relative that is about as liberal as they come. But it doesn't at all affect my view of him.
However, with a child, I'm not sure it would be the same. Everyone has expectations for their children, especially for a son if you're a male.
Related question: Is there anything a child can do or believe that would cause the loss of love?
"If your child turned out to be the queen of the gays, would you shower him with love? If your child promoted, in an official position, unfettered immigration, anti-racist Tim Wise propaganda, or other far-left liberalism, could you compartmentalize such iniquities, choosing blood over politics?"
I would still love the child. I would hope he would change his position. I would try to maintain a personal relationship despite the difference of opinion.
Interesting thing about evangelical atheists is that they seem religiously fanatic about their atheism. I seem them as totally different from atheists who don't know, don't care and don't want to know what anyone else believes and are content to sleep in weekends. I am skeptical of atheists who are desperate to get others to agree with them as well as determined to argue with anyone who is even mildly or nominally religious. Neither my religious nor my irreligious friends ever bring up religion. Probably because they aren't zealots.
Murray O'hare was herself a "religious" zealot type despite being an atheist, so no surprise her son became a religious leader, too.
"If your child turned out to be the queen of the gays,..."
I consider homosexuality to be the result of brain malfunction, so I'd treat it like any other 'disease' - unfortunate, but what can you do if there's no cure?
"If your child promoted, in an official position, unfettered immigration, anti-racist Tim Wise propaganda, or other far-left liberalism, ..."
Those are things that kids tend to believe, so I'd hope she'd outgrow it - but I'm glad to say that it's a moot point.
"Related question: Is there anything a child can do or believe that would cause the loss of love?"
Believe, no. Do, yes: stealing from me or other sorts of back-stabbing would qualify.
Well I would want my child to care about making the world a better place rather than taking political positions for popularity or personal benefit.
Having these unreasonable positions wouldn't result in loss of love but strong disappointment at the minimum.
Harris definetely has some spirituality going on, but I'm
pretty sure he doesn't believe in reincarnation, which will take him out of the Buddhist category.
I don't care what they believe as long as (1) they don't become criminals; and (2) they don't engage in interracial marriage.
If my daughter married a black man I'd cut her off completely, she would get no money nothing. If she brought around her little mulatto rats I would probably stomp on them.
I think it's clear from O'Hair's comments about her son and his decision that she's to some degree disturbed and is affected by some other issue or issues beyond her son's embrace of religion; in general, I'm skeptical of anyone who totally refuses to separate their humanity and human loyalties from a particular cause or belief, pretty much regardless of what side said cause or belief falls on.
If your kids turn out fucked up it's probably your fault so you have no one to blame but yourself. This woman sounds like a heinous, spiteful bitch. Militant atheists are the worst kind of people.
On the subject of intermarriage, my mother is of relatively unmixed Northern European heritage. She is also a serious stuck-in-'68 globalist/communist/Democrat who worked many many hours for the Obama campaign. But one time when she was really drunk she confessed that she wants "little white grandbabies".
Mike, my parents are the same way. Total left-wing Obama supporter types, they are unhappy about my conservatism and racism. Still, my mother apparently confessed to my wife she was happy that I married someone from our race.
My mom's an apathetic democrat and my dad, since I can remember, has always been a hardcore HBDer (not officially, but that's what he believes). Essentially everything conservative HBDers think about racial politics, he agrees with.
I remember when I was younger, he would complain about the double standard of racial epithets, comment on black dominance of sports and Jewish intelligence, and mention affirmative action recipients at work. He continues to do so to this day.
I'd say my mom though isn't too happy about my racially-based conservatism. She's sees is as uncivilized, though when my dad gives his support, she usually quiets.
OneSTDV said...
Related question: Is there anything a child can do or believe that would cause the loss of love?
Yes,but remains in contact because of the grandchildren.
"I don't care what they believe as long as ... (2) they don't engage in interracial marriage....Still, my mother apparently confessed to my wife she was happy that I married someone from our race."
Sabril, when you refer to race above, do you mean white or more specifically Jewish? This is not intended as a loaded question. I'm just curious, and for the record I am also Jewish.
@ OneSTDV - About Harris' and his beliefs, I believe I watched a video (one of the "Four Horsemen" ones with the rest of the crew) where Harris attempts to argue that we shouldn't even use the word atheist because something so obvious doesn't need a proper title. For example, there's no specific term for not believing in Santa Claus. If I remember correctly, before he gets to elaborate too much, Hitchens' cuts him off and changes topic.
What is this "love" of which you speak? Can you love someone and shun them? and denounce them? and burn them at the stake?
If by love you mean something like Christian love: the choice to seek the rightly ordered interest of another, then the answer to the above questions is yes. And in this case, any parent's answer to the question should be "no, nothing could stop me loving my child."
If by love you mean some goopy sentimental *feeling*, then who gives a crap about what some clown speculates would or would not affect his goopy sentimental feeling? Are you Oprah?
Post a Comment