Just from anecdotal evidence, it's pretty clear American patriotism is strongest amongst the lower classes, while denigration of America as imperialistic and oppressive remains popular amongst the higher social spheres. The town hall protesters and the academic elitists epitomize this dichotomy. According to the General Social Survey (variable: AMPROUD1), patriotism does seem to be higher amongst lower class whites as compared to the working and middle classes.
The numbers probably aren't significant enough to make any reliable conclusions, but it does provide support for what I've witnessed. So why are the lower classes the most patriotic and why do upper class people eschew harboring nationalistic pride. For proles, patriotism allows them to associate with a larger collective that typifies success. The upper classes dismiss nationalism for two reasons. First, they see patriotism as the "last refuge of a scoundrel" and thus inappropriate for those of higher status. Second, the elite educational system indoctrinates this class with a despondent view of America and supports a globalistic, not nationalistic, outlook on politics. However, one would presume this last reasoning would have a far greater impact. After all, even for non-proles, over 80% are "very proud to be an American". I find this statistic an absolutely huge overestimation, but that's what the numbers say. Nonetheless, the comparison remains apt if the absolutes don't.
22 comments:
Prole 'hoods probably have more veterans or current service members than middle class areas. That could account for the flags.
Peter
I think upper class people are uncomfortable with American Patriotism because they can sense at bottom it's essentially not about the USA in a literal sense. It's almost impossible for anyone to truly identify with a concept as large and diverse as a nation-state. Most Americans don't have deep local roots in a specific place like the Germans or French do so "Patriotism" tends to be loyalty to a group, not really to the country. I think this trend is getting worse as we get more immigrants and more people moving around.
In absence of any real "heimat", American Patriots often identify with only a subset of the people who make up the country. For most proles who served in the military it's about loyalty to like-minded white proles and those elites perceived as standing on the side of white proles. This is what liberals don't seem to get - in the prole mind there is no contradiction between preaching insurrection against a seated constitutionally elected President of the USA, or smearing a decorated American military officer like John Kerry, and being loyal to your country. Because your country is only people like you, you don't feel any patriotic connection with "Americans" who aren't like you. Americans in general tend to feel very little deep regional connection with across class lines - which is something very different from France or Germany, or even England. Class patriotism almost always trumps regional in America, and this weakens or deforms national patriotism. The American South is an exception but even there Patriotism is becoming a sort of generic "we're all rednecks together against the libs" rather than the deep sharing of heritage and culture it once was.
@ Peter A:
Yes I'd probably agree. The patriotism of intellectual conservatives, such as Bill Buckley, is different than the patriotism of many white proles. In essence, the former's patriotism derives from the uniquely just and successful government system that America has and being part of the history of so many great visionaries and institutions.
Very interesting question. Among blacks, patriotism is not so common except among military families and rare conservative, generally middle class blacks. In other words, conservative and patriotic blacks may well tend to be distinctly elevated in income and IQ over average blacks.
After the muslim terror attacks on September 11, 2001, patriotism could be observed among a much wider range of Americans, for a short period of time.
Upper and upper middle class Americans may have a very strong sense of privilege, and feel that their freedoms and rights are guaranteed, and not under threat. They also may wish not to be tainted by emotions or gestures associated with classes lower than themselves.
As you say, military families are more likely to have working class roots, although not always.
OT: Peter A's example of John Kerry was particularly amusing. Apparently Peter doesn't know how Kerry actually got his "decorations". Only four months in Vietnam and such a hero! Cute.
That 80% number really makes me doubt the GSS. You'd have to look into sample collection.
There is just no way that 80% of Bay Area or Boston residents are "Very Proud" of America.
"There is just no way that 80% of Bay Area or Boston residents are "Very Proud" of America."
Yea I just can't see it either. I believe the GSS is given as an oral interview. If so, the incredibly high number is probably due to the respondents being pressured into giving the "correct answer". Nonetheless, assuming the classes are subject to the same "pressure", the relative comparison might be apt.
It's almost impossible for anyone to truly identify with a concept as large and diverse as a nation-state.
Except many people have achieved that impossible level of identification, not merely with nation-states but with multi-national empires. Until recently, the majority of Americans were patriotic; when the USSR existed, the majority of Russians were patriotic to that; when the British Empire existed, plenty of Brits (and whites in the Dominions) were loyal to that. In short, there is nothing impossible about it, and the fact you think it is doubtful only reflects the fact that the political establishment has deliberately neglected, and even actively undermined, promoting patriotism in this country since the early 1970s.
Why? At least part of the reason relates to national strategy. Since 1972 the Eastern Establishment has sought what they called "engagement" or "detente" with the USSR, and then after 1991, with China. A patriotic observer - one who believed the USA should be #1 - would describe this strategy as "appeasement" or "treason". For exactly that reason, the Establishment has sought to reduce the number of patriots who would criticize a strategy that is manifestly not in the country's best interests.
I wonder what it means to be patriotic. That's the type of thing I'd end up wondering, if I were to take a research survey or something. I know that a researcher can look at the percentages of houses that display flags, and flag-displaying probably does correlate positively with patriotism in the traditional sense. But one could argue that being critical of the US government is patriotic, even if that's a bit simplistic. Also, patriotism in the US doesn't seem like it's equivalent to nationalism. In the US, it could be a more individualistic, rather than collectivistic, patriotism, and some blog postings have included discussions along those lines recently. Some Americans are collectivistic in their patriotism, though.
I guess Peter A addressed some of those issues already, in terms of the regional vs. localized vs. national patriotism.
Plenty of folks in the lower income group are immigrants and know what a truly crappy corrupt country is really like. Immigrants in general make less money and are very grateful to be here. Also less bright folks might be more likely to choose "strongly agree" than "agree somewhat". It would be interesting to see if they tend to answer at the far end whether agree or disagree on a variety of questions. I tend to think that brighter folks might be less likely to see such stark contrast. Audacious Epigone noted that folks who identify politically as independent are not as bright as those who chose sides, so I could be off on my idea.
I think most of the flags/ribbons displayed nowdays are on the cars of midrange government employees and retired military people. They have the greatist stake in the system.
Stan
I think you need to make a distinction: while upper middle class "SWPL" is not patriotic, the actual upper class (i.e. people could live off dividend income for several generations) is generally more patriotic than upper middle class. Also, the members of this class are rarely SWPL. This is both my personal observations and also what I picked up from the literature.
I also find the numbers suspicious, but if we take them at face value, it is only the lower class that stands out. Proles are, by definition, working class, and the working class is apparently no more patriotic than middle or upper class people.
As for reasons, people higher on the social scale will tend to shy away from what they consider the noisy patriotism of the working class. This is partly based on pure class prejudice. It is also partly based on social conditioning; they didn't grow up among noisily patriotic people, so they aren't noisy about it themselves. Another factor is related to ethnicity: WASPs and people who emulate them are overrepresented in the upper-middle class. By nature, well-to-do WASPS are disinclined to emotional public displays. Finally, though, there is the possibility that people in the upper half of the social scale are, on average, smarter than those in the lower half. They are smart enough to understand the (for some) complex idea that you can feel proud of your country in general while not liking its current leader or approving of everything it has ever done. The idea that there is some bad in all "good" countries (and some good in all "bad" countries) is, frankly, too complicated for people who are not analytical thinkers to grasp.
This could mean that people from higher social classes are more patriotic than they seem, given that we most often hear them expressing disapproval of America.
According to the General Social "Survey (variable: AMPROUD1), patriotism does seem to be higher amongst lower class whites as compared to the working and middle classes."
Of course, that's where we get the young health white kids we use for cannon fodder to liberate non-white people from themselves.
"For proles, patriotism allows them to associate with a larger collective that typifies success."
How then do you explain the unpatriotic behavior of Black and Mestizo 'Proles'??
"How then do you explain the unpatriotic behavior of Black and Mestizo 'Proles'??"
They are too racialist to care about being viewed as successful.
They only care about getting back at whitey and they also see America as "white" and thus anti-NAM.
You know, OneSTDV, additionally the Prole class throughout Europe was historically very patriotic.
Even today, Slavic Proles, especially Russian one's, are excessively zealous in their patriotardism, going to such absurd lengths as the re-veneration (for the umpteenth time, already) of the mass murderer Stalin.
Ah, what makes some people 'tick'!
Of course the "prole" White American working-classes and lower-middle classes are more patriotic and nationalistic than the traitorous internationalist cosmopolitans who have hijacked and near-ruined the USA. White American "proles," in fact, are the only group which is still holding the USA together and contributing to its basic functioning. Who do you think grows the food, does the construction, keeps up the roads, fixes the cars, and so on? Yes, it's the "proles" y'all so despise.
Ethno-nationalism and patriotism are very healthy things even though they are mostly disdained by the decadent and greedy White and Jewish American elites who have sold the USA down the river and which will lead to its eventual break-up and balkanization. Do y'all reject ethno-nationalism, and would y'all rather everyone adopt Judaic forms of internationalism and rootless cosmopolitanism and thus erase all borders and racial/ethnic distinctions?
Peter A:"Most Americans don't have deep local roots in a specific place"
The people up there in Yankee-Judea where so many 'liberal' Whites live might not feel very rooted in specific areas or regions, but here in the American South most of the White Americans are deeply rooted in their local area since their families have lived here for many generations now.
It is just unfortunate, PW, when these working-class Whites, especially Southerners, are manipulated into being cannon fodder, through patriotardism, for the NWO 'elites' and their wars of globalist imperialism.
@ PW:
I don't denigrate proles on this website, in fact I've defended them numerous times.
I admit I wouldn't want to live amongst them or have them marry a member of my family, but for the most part, they are honest, productive citizens. They don't deserve the criticism they get from the MSM, especially with all the other worse groups that are immune from criticism.
And while what they do is important, you seem to be dismissing all the stuff high-IQ people, like technology, engineering, and medicine.
Run the analysis like this: AMPROUD1 in ROW, CLASS in COLUMN, and in SELECTION FILTER(S): RACE(1), AMPROUD1(1-4). Also, check the statistics option at the bottom.
The result is that those in the lower class are prouder than the rest by about 1/3 a SD, but the sample is small. There is effectively no difference among working, middle, and upper class whites.
A lot probably depends on geography. In the heart of the midwest, the solid middle class on up is quite patriotic/proud of the US. I'm under the impression that it's not the case so much on the coasts, though. Age is probably another factor, with older people displaying more pride (and also tending to be of a higher social class) than their younger counterparts.
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